Berlin Senator for the Interior Andreas Geisel on corona demos: "I have the right to have an attitude"

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Dangerous march through the capital: Demonstration against Corona measures on August 1st

SPIEGEL: Mr. Geisel, were you surprised by the sometimes violent reactions to the ban on the planned demonstration by corona deniers over the weekend?

Geisel: I expected a broad response, but not of this magnitude.

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Interior Senator Andreas Geisel (SPD)

SPIEGEL: Do you still stand by it?

Geisel: We anticipated the discussion. Restrictions on freedom of assembly always provoke violent reactions. But I stand by it. It was a difficult trade-off between different fundamental rights. Right to freedom of assembly versus right to life and physical integrity. The prohibition is based on the scope of protection of Article 2 of the Basic Law. We have to assume that the requirements for infection protection are not observed during the demos. That was already the case with the demo on August 1st.

SPIEGEL: What do you specifically fear?

Hostage: Health hazards both for the participants in the demos and protest camps and for the police officers deployed. Protection against infection has priority in the weighing up.

SPIEGEL: Then why the replenishment so that you no longer want to give corona deniers a stage? It sounds like they want to forbid unwelcome citizens from speaking.

Geisel: This wording is in a press release, but not in the prohibition order. That was a personal comment from me and not the premise for the prohibition decision. We have had a number of questionable to disgusting demos in Berlin this year. If conditions are met, they are of course also covered by the Basic Law. However, the corona deniers have already proven that they do not adhere to requirements.

SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, there is still an aftertaste.

Geisel: I have the right to have a political stance and to express it. However, she had no influence on the prohibition decision. This decision is made by the assembly authority.

SPIEGEL: Didn't these statements create a kind of martyrdom on the part of the corona deniers?

Hostage: No. If the state makes rules, it must also be willing to enforce them. That's exactly what we're doing here.

SPIEGEL: There was also harsh criticism from the so-called "mainstream".

Geisel: You have to decide. At the time, my critics expressed themselves very differently than, for example, there was this boat party in Kreuzberg. Or when the rules were often not followed at the Black Lives Matter demonstration. Even after the first big demo of the corona deniers on August 1st, there was a great outcry as to why I allowed something like that. It doesn't quite fit together.

"Freedom of expression does not only apply to corona deniers."

SPIEGEL: Will the ban stand in court?

Geisel: We have good arguments. But it is possible that a court can decide differently and weigh up fundamental rights differently.

SPIEGEL: How do you explain the susceptibility of parts of the population to crude conspiracy ideologies?

Geisel: There are a variety of reasons. This is historically not unique either, something like that has happened again and again in pandemics. People doubt and despair and look for simple answers. In some cases, the Corona rules involve considerable interference with our way of living together. Criticizing it is normal. But: There are not only doubters on the move, but also right-wing extremists who are concerned with something completely different than pandemic issues. Our democracy has to defend itself there.

SPIEGEL: Do you see specific attempts to take over the movement by right-wing extremists?

Geisel: Yes, that would also have been expected at the weekend. Whether the right-wing would dominate the demo or only provide large parts is a question for gourmets. The fact is that everyone at such demos needs to know who is running and who they are messing with. You have to be able to criticize that. Freedom of expression does not only apply to corona deniers.

SPIEGEL: What's next?

Hostage: If the ban holds, an attempt will still be made to demonstrate. That is why we have already brought together thousands of police officers to enforce the ban. If the ban is overturned, we will make tough conditions and enforce them. It will not be easy for the civil servants.

SPIEGEL: How do you intend to do that with possibly thousands of protesters?

Geisel: It is important that the police remain de-escalating. We are democrats. We react appropriately and with a sense of proportion. We enforce rules, but we mustn't overshoot either. That is a challenge for the Berlin police. I can only make an urgent appeal to people who might come to Berlin anyway: stay peaceful and stay away from violent criminals.