From both sides, the response came immediately: “With joy!” When we proposed to Charlotte Rampling and Charlotte Gainsbourg to bring them together on our cover, the prospect seemed rejoicing to them, as to us. With a form of evidence: “We know that we are walking on the same path, even without knowing each other very well,” says Charlotte Rampling. The movie theater. The fashion. Their immediately identifiable silhouettes, like two sister definitions of elegance, this minimalist charisma, inspiring the creators. England, Jane Birkin.
Charlotte Gainsbourg's mother was born the same year as Charlotte Rampling, 1946, made her debut with her in Swinging London, and, like her, crossed the Channel: they always remained in touch, another invisible bridge between the two Charlottes . Rampling and Gainsbourg, gifted and discreet actresses who have asserted their unique talents in French and international cinema, as readily provocative as they are embodiments of modesty. We saw them together in
Lemming,
by Dominik Moll, in 2005, and
Melancholia,
by Lars von Trier, in 2011. Difficult, otherwise, to summarize their impressive careers, this freedom which takes them from arthouse films to big American production, at ease in both comedy and thriller.
Charlotte Gainsbourg & Charlotte Rampling: frank connection
In images, in pictures
See the slideshow07 photos
See the slideshow07 photos
Charlotte Rampling has illuminated the films of Luchino Visconti, Liliana Cavani, Patrice Chéreau, Woody Allen, Alan Parker, Sidney Lumet, Paul Verhoeven, François Ozon… Charlotte Gainsbourg, those of Bertrand Blier, Éric Rochant, Yvan Attal, Michel Gondry, James Ivory , Wim Wenders, Arnaud Desplechin. Among other things... Sitting side by side, in front of a coffee table, they switch from English to French, from their shared memories to their common passion for song, drawing... And for cinema, a land of adventure at a time when playing with desire is sometimes complicated.
Madame Figaro.
– Do you understand that we find a family resemblance between you two
?
Charlotte Rampling.
– Yes, I often think of Charlotte. When she does something, I watch, it always interests me. I feel a connection. Like a silent friendship. You don't need to know people on a daily basis to feel an affinity, to know that they are in a place where you also find yourself.
Charlotte Gainsbourg.
– There is something spontaneous, obvious. We've been talking for a while now and it doesn't surprise me that we agree on everything. We have a familiarity.
CR
– And a link, through Jane Birkin. I started in the same film as her,
The Knack,
by Richard Lester, in 1965, and, thereafter, we always crossed paths... In recent years, we exchanged text messages. She was a very generous woman: every time she saw me in a film, she sent me a message.
We know that we are walking on the same path with Charlotte, even without knowing each other very well.
Charlotte Rampling
This link is also fashion. Both of you have a signature style that belongs only to you…
CR
– (
Spontaneously.
) Ah yes! (
They both laugh.
) Charlotte, you always had your style. Like your mother had hers. That you reinvent with your links with couturiers… I found my style when I met Yohji Yamamoto. When I was young, people would put anything on me, anything would suit me. It's like Charlotte. (
She stops, looks at her.
) We can put all the fashions on you, it will work. But it won't be you. When I met Yohji, I met an identity. I entered into a form of minimalist clothing ritual. Almost a uniform.
CG
– I love that, the idea of not thinking. My father had this, the same shoes, two jeans, two shirts, that's it. Me, I know that once I have the shoes, I'm already comfortable... And afterward, I need to be protected by a large raincoat, a drape that hides. In fact, that's the key: finding a thing or two that characterizes you. And that's enough.
CR
– It’s liberating! Because with what representation brings, a stability in return is necessary... We end up knowing what we want to look like, how to be identified. It's reassuring. Then, we deal with all the contrasts of our jobs and all our characters…
I feel a connection with Charlotte
Charlotte Rampling
But you love fashion, attending fashion shows…
CG
– The atmosphere at fashion shows has changed a lot. Before, we went as we got up, we didn't care. Now you have to be prepared, made up, dressed. It's not light at all anymore. I work with the house of Saint Laurent, so I attend all their shows and I do it with pleasure because Anthony Vaccarello is a friend.
CR
– I appreciate the work of great couturiers. Their fashion shows are akin to manifestos. I like it when the atmosphere is electric and striking. But I only go there if they are friends.
You both have English origins…
CR
– I am completely English. I took a DNA test, I was hoping to have many other origins – at least Irish, Scottish, countries that I love. With colonization, the English were in many countries and I thought my ancestors had mixed. But no ! They stuck together! There is no question of spreading the sperm. (
She laughs.
) I'm 96% British, but I have 4% Greek blood, which I really like.
I appreciate the work of great designers. Their fashion shows are akin to manifestos
Charlotte Rampling
CG
– I took the same test, I came out 50% English and 50% Ashkenazi Jewish from Russia. I was hoping to have Mongolian blood, because my father had slanted eyes, or other slightly exotic origins. Nothing, it's just half and half...
Are you returning to England
?
CR
– I go there often, I have family, grandchildren there… But I grew up in France, in Fontainebleau, from 9 to 13 years old, in a school where no one spoke English. That matters in an education. My father was a soldier, he was often transferred. We went back to England, where I had fun with my sister playing little French girls. When I met Jean-Michel (
Jarre, her husband for twenty years, Editor's note
), he asked me where I wanted to live, I chose France, I have always been happy here. But by keeping a place of my own, in London, otherwise I feel homesick…
CG
– As a child, I had a very happy relationship with England, where we went to see my mother's parents. There, the same, I liked playing French, whereas here, I like feeling a little foreign. Have an English side. Although my sister Kate had a much clearer English identity – both her parents did. My sister Lou too, because my mother spoke to her in English, whereas when I was born, she forced herself to speak French. I have the fantasy of going to live in London, but Yvan
(Attal, his partner for thirty years, Editor's note
) categorically rejects the idea. It's perhaps a safeguard, I don't know if I would like it... But this idea attracts me.
In Paris, does the lack of anonymity weigh on you
?
CG
– Yes, that’s why I loved living in New York for seven years, from 2013 to 2020, a place where no one knew me or my parents; I could do what I wanted… Anonymity is recreation. Afterwards, I always have in mind this sentence that my father said to me when, as a teenager, I groaned as soon as I was asked for an autograph: “You don't realize how much you're going to suffer the day it doesn't happen.” will happen more…”
CR
– It’s important to have the possibility of leaving when you have known parents and that can become a burden. My son David (
Jarre, Editor's note
) went to live in England. But, like you Charlotte, he came back… In Paris, I am surprised to be often recognized. People are very polite, it's not an invasion at all. They come and tell me nice things. Or they ask me for a selfie, and why not? We present ourselves on big screens, people thank you for it, we are not going to complain about it…
On screen, it seems that you both like to push the limits…
CR
– You have to take risks. I completely claim it. Otherwise we get bored.
CG
– I need to be pushed, otherwise I won't be able to take the initiative. It’s thanks to others that I can explore more. I like suffering, well, suffering is a big word, but I like it to be difficult. Even in comedy, there can be discomfort. I find it good not to stay on familiar ground.
CR
– Charlotte and I can delve into very dark things in cinema, but we are not inhabited by darkness. We both have a dark side, but we know how to get out of it...
Charlotte Gainsbourg, you are starring in
We, the Leroys,
and Charlotte
Rampling you are finishing a shoot with Jim Jarmusch…
CG
–
We, the Leroys,
it's a comedy, but the director Florent Bernard uses it to talk very intimate things, he talks about his life and that of his family…
CR
– That’s a good starting point. Let there be a breath. For me, it's fundamental to let myself be carried away by the creative desire of a director. Jim Jarmusch is a very pure person. An artist who doesn't compromise, and people join him for who he is, in his poetic way. The film is called
Father Mother Sister Brother.
He is finishing filming in Paris. He is a delicious being. You know him ?
CG
– A little bit. He was the first visitor to come to see my father's museum, because he knows Stephan Crasneanscki very well who made the sound of the house. He came out in tears and he was the first to leave me a message… It really touched me. He is very generous.
Charlotte Gainsbourg, your father would no longer have the same freedom to shock today. Is this an effect of
MeToo that you regret
?
CG
– Life without provocateurs would be mortally boring. Afterwards, I find it unfair to bring my father back to MeToo. We must differentiate between provocateurs and aggressors. At the very beginning, I saw MeToo in the United States, from afar. And then it happened here. I find it normal for women to talk, for things to move. And that the world of work, whatever the professions, is changing radically. It is important.
So we need to find a new place for desire
?
CR
– Yes, because if there is no notion of desire, a vital impulse, an absolute desire that drives you, the stories we tell in the cinema will not be credible. Seduction is not going to disappear from human relationships. Nor stories told in the cinema. We should not abandon this seduction, rather find a graduation. Something more peaceful, and obviously agreed. But, for now, the urgency is that women can speak, that their words be heard, listened to. It may be necessary to go far, often with excesses, to change things…
CG
– Especially since we see the talents of women, particularly in cinema, the talents of directors, who have emerged, and that is great. I don't know if it's just related to MeToo, but one might think there is a connection.
You both lost a sister you were very close to. What place do those who are absent hold in your lives
?
CG
– I have three absentees. My sister Kate, my father, my mother. The entire first part of my childhood, until I was 9 years old, there were four of us. Today, among these four, I am the last. It's very strange. I have an inner life with them. I'm not a believer or anything, but my deaths are part of me.
CR
– You have to find your way through all of this. This suffering forces you. Or to sink or to rise.
CG
– To bring something out.