Violent virologist dispute between Drosten and Kekulé - now Streeck also intervenes

Drosten's collar bursts: After the scandal with the Bild newspaper, he attacks his colleague Kekulé - who shoots back. Now Hendrik Streeck is also speaking.

• After an unusual request to virologist Christian Drosten , a critical article about one of his studies appeared.
• Drosten now questioned the methods of the  Bild newspaper on Twitter .
• Now he and his virologist colleague Alexander Kekulé are having a public argument (Update May 29, 9:18 am). 

Update from May 29, 3:37 p.m .: Germany's leading virologists seem to be at odds at the moment - however, according to the criticism of Christian Dorsten, they do not currently want to know anything about a "virologist dispute". Again and again it is emphasized that it is normal and good that different opinions circulate in science. This is the only way to achieve a common consensus. In addition, virologist Hendrik Streeck has now spoken - and stood behind his colleague Christian Drosten.

Hendrik Streeck was a guest of “Markus Lanz” on Thursday (May 28th). He jumped to the side of his colleague Christian Drosten.

© Screenshot / ZDF

In the  ZDF political talk "Markus Lanz"  the researcher at the University of Bonn was asked about the supposed disagreements with Drosten. Lanz specifically addressed   the different view of the risk of infection in children. The   current, incomplete state of the Drosten study rates this as potentially higher than, say, Hendrik Streeck , who says: “We know very little so far, but the majority of the data suggests that they ( children, red. ) Are somewhat less infected as adults. But we don't know why and whether children are actually less infectious. "

The Bonn virologist can  understand the basic criticism, according to his own statements, because "what I read from the critics' side was initially obvious to me". However, the media dealings with the study are "really uncomfortable". "I also feel with my colleague Drosten ." Ultimately, Streeck broke a lance for his colleagues again, because "in the end we are also a team in science - even if there are quarrels".

Corona: Does the virologist zoff slip into embarrassment? Kekulé praises Drosten - and then adds heavily

Update from May 29, 9:18 a.m .: The tone in the virologist dispute is sharper. In a Deutschlandfunk interview, Alexander Kekulé has now confirmed the criticism of his colleague Christian Drosten . Drosten was an "extremely serious" scientist, Kekulé praised - and then expressed the somewhat poisoned "expectation" that he was "absolutely certain" that Drosten would " withdraw and rewrite" his study . 

Kekulé further said that in science everyone should "pull together". He didn't want to know anything about a "virologist argument". Bonn's virologist Hendrick Streeck , however, told the editorial network in Germany that Drosten's method had been criticized by five statisticians. 

Drosten had recently announced an update of his study - research by Deutschlandfunk  in turn supports Drosten's criticism of Kekulé (quote: "He would have to publish something first"). According to these, Kekulé has 30 scientific publications, whereas there are 344 at Drosten  , the most recent all on the subject of corona . 

"If you find that the data basis is not correct, it is important to discuss it publicly," said Kekule (@UniHalle, @unimedhal) about the dispute over the @c_drosten # Corona study. "We don't know anything more or less from the study because the data were unsuitable."

Virologist dispute flares up completely: Drosten attacks Kekulé head-on - and nothing more can be offered by him

Update of May 28, 8:50 pm: With his Tagesspiegel article and the open criticism of his colleague Christian Drosten (see update at 8:21 am), Alexander Kekulé apparently did himself no favor. At least on the net, the majority opinion is clear. On the Kekulé Twitter page it says, among other things: "I held her next to @c_drosten as the most capable capacity in the country and I followed her podcasts as interested as his. The fact that they are throwing the club between his legs with this comment is sad and only helps the #BILD “. 

Another user writes: “Kicking colleagues and RKI is just annoying. They only disseminate your personal agenda under the guise of supposed expertise and thus massively unsettle the public. ”Another accuses Kekulé of a“ bad style ”. 

Criticism that apparently is shared by Drosten himself. He retweeted this statement on Twitter: "If the scientists beat each other openly at the end, the picture wins in the end." He added:  "This is how it looks. Fortunately, Kekulé is so far the only one who behaves like this. He plays no role in our community. ” Another blow to Kekulé after Drosten previously indicated that he had published nothing on the topic - so I have no idea. 

This is how it looks. Fortunately, Kekulé is so far the only one who behaves like this. It doesn't matter in our community. https://t.co/wAxgyrxG7Y

Drosten later shared another broadside against Kekulé, namely a tweet in which the virologist professor is referred to as a "science journalist". So as someone who only looks at things from the outside and does not have in-depth competence. Even more: In the tweet that Drosten retweeted, Kekulé is also accused of constantly changing his mind and sometimes offering "absurd solutions". The tablecloth between the two professors seems cut. 

AOK draws consequences - reporting on virologist Drosten 

Update from May 28th, 12:34 pm : The AOK federal association stops its advertisement in the picture newspaper. After the controversial image -Reporting over the virologists Christian Drosten and one of his Corona studies, the AOK will terminate the cooperation, reports the media magazine dwdl.de online. The AOK federal association came to the conclusion that the newspaper was not a suitable environment for an image campaign. Managing director Steve Plesker wrote this in a post on LinkedIn. So-called brand safety plays an important role for statutory health insurance companies - advertising ends up in trustworthy environments. At the same time, according to dwdl.de, Pleske makes it clear that the AOK does not want this to be understood as a call to boycott. 

Corona virologist Drosten is outraged by Kekulé criticism

Update from May 28, 8.21 a.m .: Charité virologist Christian Drosten once again defends himself against hearty criticism . After the Bild newspaper Drosten had harshly criticized for a study on the risk of corona infection by children, a dispute had already flared up. Now the biochemist Alexander Kekulé from the University of Halle-Wittenberg put his finger in the wound.

Became celebrities in the past few months: Virgen Christian Drosten and Alexander Kekulé.

© Screenshot Markus Lanz / ZDF, dpa / Michael Kappeler

In a guest post in the Berlin Tagesspiegel , Kekulé also criticizes Rusten's study . With reference to the Zurich biostatistician Leonhard Held, who presumes methodological errors in Drosten's study , he himself lists a number of alleged errors made by Drosten. Kekulé sometimes writes that the question of whether children are responsible for the spread of the virus is of " personal importance " for Drosten as a consultant to the federal government . After all, Drosten initially pleaded for school closings, but later turned around. According to Kekulé Drostens, the new study should now scientifically back up his own first assessment and ultimately protect him from criticism of how she expressed the picture .

In conclusion, Kekulé said with regard to errors in the study:  "Why Drosten does not simply withdraw the study is difficult to understand".

Christian Drosten now defends himself against the violent criticism and distributes himself properly against Kekulé. He shared his colleague's Tagesspiegel contribution via Twitter and wrote: “Kekulé creates mood. His presentation is tendentious. He does not know our data and quotes incorrectly. " Finally, Drosten distributed a deep blow and wrote: " You couldn't criticize Kekulé himself, he would have to publish something first. "

Kekulé sets the mood. His presentation is tendentious. He does not know our data and quotes incorrectly. One could not criticize Kekulé himself, he would first have to publish something. https://t.co/0Grbgrmc09

Corona virologist Drosten in dispute with "image" - Spahn takes a stand: "Never a good idea"

Update of May 28, 7:11 am: Now Health Minister Jens Spahn has also commented on the dispute between the Bild newspaper and the virologist Christian Drosten. It was important to him that politics and science lead a culture of debate, Spahn told the Augsburger Allgemeine . Public discussions are also expressly permitted, since ultimately it is about the “future of our children”. However, everyone should "beware of apparently quickly derived claims to absolute", warned Spahn. 

The fact that Drosten at times made the private contact details of the corresponding image reporter public was "never a good idea," Spahn continued.

Then the health minister pointed out that scientific knowledge is evolving over time. Politicians must then follow this level of knowledge. He gave the example of the school openings *. There are currently no reliable facts about the risk of infection from children.

Corona virologist Drosten shoots back with arguments in the "image dispute" - "misused for attack" 

Update from May 27th, 11.30 a.m .: Christian Drosten defends himself in the "picture dispute". Specifically, the virologist accuses the medium of having misrepresented statements by statisticians about one of his studies in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic .

After all four German-language statistics critics distanced themselves from the # Bild article yesterday, English statisticians were misused for another attack today. However, these too have distanced themselves immediately. https://t.co/fZInDNfouJ

"After yesterday all four German-language statistics critics distanced themselves from the # Bild article, English statisticians were misused for another attack today. However, these too distanced themselves immediately, ”wrote the scientist at the Berlin Charité on Twitter.

Update from May 27th, 11 a.m .:  Virologist Christian Drosten is backed by a colleague in the “Image Controversy”. 

The Bild Zeitung had made serious accusations that a study by the scientist of the  Berlin Charité on the pandemic of coronavirus was unsustainable - relying, among other things, on Sir David Spiegelhalter, statistics professor at Cambridge University.

Corona in Germany: Christian Drosten approached for study

The study was specifically about a comparison between children and adults, how strong the amount of virus in the throat. Is the study wrong or incorrect? Virologist Dr. Martin Stürmer from Frankfurt commented on the Markus Lanz program on ZDF .

Corona virologist of the Charité in Berlin: Christian Drosten.

© dpa / Britta Pedersen

The amount of virus in the throat between children and adults would "not really differ significantly," he said on the show of Drosten's results. It took "mathematical duels to verify that," he said, "the results can be" safely discussed. Mr. Drosten said that himself ”.

Christian Drosten: colleague Martin Stürmer defends German corona virologists

But how his colleague is supposedly approached, he could not understand at all. “It is definitely not a good style. I found this with some regret because I got to know Christian Drosten as a very good scientist. This way of dealing with it is not good and right for any scientist, "said striker :" We have known this virus for almost five months. You can't expect miracles. ” Drosten  was“ picked up by the Bild newspaper ”.

In view of the polarizing role of virologists in the corona crisis , their results are currently taking a back seat.

Update of May 26, 9:00 p.m .:  The discussion about the coronavirus requirements and the recommendations of virologists and health experts is growing to threatening proportions. Virologist Christian Drosten and SPD health expert Karl Lauterbach  said they received threats.

Corona: Lauterbach talks about death threats

Lauterbach reported in the evening to the portal t-online.de more about the incident. "A death threat is a kind of postcard, on which a cross is engraved with my name. It says in typewriter that I should think of my family, ”said the SPD politician, who handed the anonymous threats to the state security.

Previously, Lauterbach shared a photo of a threat package on Twitter , but it did not pose a death threat. Drosten then commented that he had received the same package (see update from 6.10 p.m.). Lauterbach found that hate speech on the Internet has increased massively in recent days. The 57-year-old defended the strict course of the federal government and received a lot of criticism.

Dear @c_drosten It is sad that there are agitators who are responsible for this. But the overwhelming majority of the population appreciate your work. Started with me. https://t.co/awmPgrEL7B

Threats to politicians are no longer uncommon in Germany. Thuringia's CDU chief Mike Mohring published a death threat against him in October 2019, which apparently came from the far-right scene. The Green politicians Cem Özdemir and Claudia Roth also received death threats, as did the SPD politician Karamba Diaby from Halle.

Corona: Christian Drosten reacts in the podcast to picture articles

Update of May 26, 6:10 p.m .: The dispute over corona measures and the advice of experts is clearly threatening to escalate in Germany: virologist Christian Drosten and SPD member of the Bundestag Karl Lauterbach, often cited as an expert in the corona crisis, have reportedly Receive drastic threats in the mail.

Drosten shared  a threat on Tuesday against the SPD member of the Bundestag, Karl Lauterbach, and commented, "I also received the same package today." The split image shows an open package with a vial labeled "CoV-positive " Lies, in addition to the brief message " Drink this - then you will become immune ".

I got the same package today. https://t.co/JBGQTKPkrh

For his part, Lauterbach wrote, “Death threats to insults of all kinds, some of us have to put up with a lot. Therefore, everyone with a remaining stock of character should stop the hate speech online against virologists, epidemiologists or politicians. It animates people who are unpredictable . Think of our families . "

Corona virus in Germany: Drosten reacts in the podcast to picture articles

Update from May 26, 5.20 p.m .:  The exchange of blows between the Bild newspaper and the Charité virologist Christian Drosten continues on the day after the scandal. The tabloid had described a study of viral loads in children as "grossly wrong". Now Drosten counters in the current edition of his corona virus podcast .

The virologist reacted to the image article again with the headline "Drosten study on infectious children grossly wrong - how long has the star virologist known about it?". The advisor to the federal government in the pandemic criticized an inaccurate approach to the picture -  which criticized a previous publication of Drosten's study with citations from scientists taken out of the larger context.

Drosten: That's why the scientists distanced themselves from the picture article

"Of course, you can now build it somewhere either from Twitter or these preprints, which you want to quote from it. Just so you do not understand , what there at all these scientists in our study criticize , "complained Drosten. In addition, he emphasized that four scientists “have now very clearly distanced themselves from all of this reporting,” since “the content is simply not what they said”. Above all, the methodology of the study was  criticized by the picture .

I have already commented on this in detail in the podcast. There and in the actual manuscript there is a detailed discussion of the limitations of our study. The statement is robust. https://t.co/LT5PQ5NiBD

In the NDR podcast , Drosten again explained the procedure of the corresponding study. The expertise suggested that children can be as contagious as adults. 

He made a visual comparison of the current situation. “They build a garden shed in their free time at home and wall it up. Then a master mason comes and says: 'But you could have used a better trowel, then the joints might have been nicer.' Until then, everything is justified, ”said Drosten, apparently referring to the scientific process of thesis and criticism.

Corona expert Drosten on image report - "Completely misleading"

But then Drosten took out against the Bild newspaper . "But if someone comes up from the outside and says: 'What's in your garden isn't a house by the way, because the bricklayer has complained about it', then maybe we are a bit with what's happening in public right now . It is completely misleading . "

For this reason, the scientists mentioned in the article distanced themselves from the newspaper report, Drosten explained. Previous publications of studies would be published in order to give experts the opportunity to evaluate them and, if possible, to improve them. "This is a normal scientific process that perhaps certain media so do not understand or so can not be transferred to a shortened reporting . Sometimes things like that come out of it, ”says Drosten.

In addition, the alleged critics are now distancing themselves in rows from the # image display. Back then we received a lot of good suggestions and have now incorporated them. This makes our conclusions even harder. https://t.co/q14tSHKTYQ

Drosten, the Corona expert: dispute between virologists and Bild newspaper escalates

First report from May 25th:

Berlin - Virologist Christian Drosten from the Berlin Charité Clinic has always proven to be one of the most respected political advisors in the corona pandemic *. Occasionally, he criticized the reporting of the German press landscape in connection with the Coronavirus *. Now there is trouble again - because Drosten accuses the Bild newspaper of " tendency reporting". This was preceded by an unusual request from an editor. An article followed with drastic criticism of Drosten's work.

Corona virus scandal around Drosten: Tweet with picture request goes viral

Drosten  himself started  the heated debate with a tweet , the virologist posted the screenshot of a mail request from a picture journalist. The latter informed Drosten that they wanted to report critically on a study by the Institute of Virology at the Charité. This examined whether there was the same risk of infection * in children as in adults. 

Drosten referred to that study when he said there was no significant difference in the viral load in children and adults. The request also included quotes from scientists who are said to be skeptical of the study.

In the editor's email, which was sent to Drosten at 3 p.m., the virologist was asked to comment on the study within  an hour . In his tweet, Drosten replied dryly that he had " better things to do ". He wrote: "Interesting: the picture plans a tendentious reporting about our pre-publication on viral loads and tries to get scraps of quotations from scientists without connection."

Interesting: #Bild plans to report on our pre-publication on viral loads and tries to get scraps of quotations from scientists without context. I'm supposed to comment within an hour. I have better things to do. pic.twitter.com/fghG1rdnnq

Coronavirus: Scientists quoted from picture stand behind Drosten - "Distance me expressly"

Shortly after the tweet by the Charité virologist , the picture published the critical article on Monday afternoon with the title "Drosten study on infectious children grossly wrong". The text also included voices from various  scientific experts who expressed their concerns about the study. The newspaper also mentioned that the virologist did not want to respond to the request.

However, the scientists quoted did not seem to know the picture report at least in part and now distanced themselves from the article. The Bonn statistics professor Dominik Liebl wrote, "I knew nothing about BILD's request and distance myself from this way of putting people under pressure very sharply". Christoph Rothe , professor at the University of Mannheim, also tweeted, "Nobody from the picture spoke to me, I expressly distance myself from this type of reporting"

Looks like a scientist's suicide turns into journalistic suicide pic.twitter.com/A6Bucyb3eT

Both the economist Rothe and Liebl are quoted in the article. "The mean viral load of the kindergarten age group is 86 percent lower than the mean viral load of the older age group", is a quote from a favorite study. Rothe is reproduced as saying that the statistical methods used in Drosten's study are "very weak".

Image scandal around virologists: Scientists cited stand behind Drosten - "Expressly distance me"

Even politicians jumped aside and supported the virologist. Juso boss Kevin Kühnert posted a request from the same editor in 2018, in which he was given "more than three hours to answer", as the SPD politician commented ironically. Green politician Renate Künast also commented on Rust's contribution with a heart and a thumbs-up. SPD health expert  Karl Lauterbach  - also an extremely sought-after contact in the crisis - also backed Drosten on Twitter and wrote, "Since the methodology of the study is impeccable (and matches that of other studies), I would not worry."

But journalism has also become really fast-paced. Two years ago you had more than three hours to answer. pic.twitter.com/0nPCMo1pb2

Many Twitter users referred to the short time the virologist had given an answer and accused the image of lacking research and bias. Some users attacked the Charité virologist because he first made the editor's data public in his screenshot. However, the tweet was deleted by Drosten and later edited again posted. 

As a journalist, I find this behavior so incredibly embarrassing. Answer within an hour, the thesis is already set in advance, research seems to be a foreign word: It is exactly how I always imagined how @fpiatov would put his trash together

Researchers from Munich now want to have identified a marker that could be used to predict how a corona disease works.

ajr / pm

* Merkur.de is part of the nationwide Ippen-Digital editors network.

List of rubric lists: © Screenshot Markus Lanz / ZDF, dpa / Michael Kappeler