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Kaja Kallas is one of the voices that most clearly demands that Ukraine must win the war against Russia and Vladimir Putin must lose it. The Estonian prime minister, a liberal politician who has increased taxes in her country to devote more to security due to the Russian threat, who has led decisive initiatives in the EU to support Kiev and whom the Kremlin has put on its wanted list and capture, urges EU and NATO countries to invest more in defense. Putin has not put aside his imperialist goals, she says, and will not stop in Ukraine if he conquers it. And that will not only affect the neighbors, but everyone.
“The question is when the next war will start and what do we do in the meantime, if we prepare to help deter Russia or if we close our eyes and pretend that nothing is happening,” warns Kallas (Tallinn, 46 years old) in an interview with EL PAÍS in Brussels before the summit of heads of state and government of the EU, where voices are increasing, like yours, warning that it is not impossible for the war to reach community territory, which is seeking funds and mechanisms to rearm. “The solution is to be strong enough and confront the bully, Russia, so that the war does not spread,” remarks Kallas, who calls for “creative formulas” to seek that financing.
Ask.
The EU has said it will support Ukraine for as long as necessary, but it is increasingly difficult to make historic decisions regarding that support. Effective and decisive military aid is being reduced and delayed.
Answer.
This is true. If we do not set victory as our goal, then we do not act in accordance with it. So we have to say clearly that the goal is the victory of Ukraine. We have not been quick enough to support and help Ukraine and I sometimes think that our response to Russian aggression has been weak. The sad truth of wars is that whoever has the most ammunition will win. And Ukraine has not received the ammunition it needs to shoot down and confront the rockets, missiles and drones that Russia launches. I also think that sometimes in Europe we are afraid of our own potential and power.
Q.
You don't believe that the EU's objective is the victory of Ukraine?
A.
If we listen carefully, some talk about Ukraine's victory, but others say that Ukraine should not lose or that Russia should not win. And they are different things. I defend the victory of Ukraine as a goal. As historian Timothy Snyder said: 'Wars are not always won, but they are never won unless victory is set as the goal.'
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Q.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has demanded more anti-aircraft defense and a system similar to those of Israel that shot down Iranian drones and missiles on Saturday, as well as for his allies to give him that support. Is it feasible?
A.
Ukraine urgently needs anti-aircraft defense. I am personally talking to several EU countries that have such capabilities and could send them to Ukraine. Ukraine has not asked anyone to go there and shoot down Russian missiles or rockets. They ask for the equipment and means to manufacture it, because it is cheaper. It's also cheaper to avoid war.
Q.
You have led several initiatives to support Ukraine, such as sending one million rounds of artillery. He also put on the table the idea of issuing Eurobonds to finance defense. What other proposals do you handle?
A.
The idea of launching Eurobonds responds to the fact that we need financing to increase investment in defense. The industry says that we have no orders and the governments that there are no funds to acquire additional defense equipment. And there are also private equity funds and the European Investment Bank (EIB), which have restrictions on investment in the defense industry. We have to work through different and varied channels: when we do not have enough financing, we have to obtain capital from outside.
Q.
There is no consensus for Eurobonds…
A.
Well, it wasn't a categorical and instant “no.” I am glad to see that countries, even the most frugal ones, are adapting to the idea. I am not going to cast myself on Eurobonds, if there are other initiatives, welcome, we must think creatively to increase investment in defense.
Q.
Is the possibility of the war spreading and reaching an EU country real?
A.
Russia has not changed its objectives. If they succeed in Ukraine, they will have an army of one million armed men and a military industry that works in three shifts to supply them. The question is when the next war will start and what do we do in the meantime: prepare to help deter Russia so that war does not happen because we are strong enough, so that they do not think about taking the next step; or close your eyes and pretend that nothing is happening. What was done before 2022 [when Russia launched the full-scale invasion of Ukraine] was the latter. We must overcome that phase and move forward to prepare ourselves.
Q.
Has Estonia, on the eastern flank of the EU and NATO, experienced an increase in hybrid attacks from Russia?
A.
Russia is carrying out hybrid attacks in all EU countries, not just Estonia. They use different tools to do this: information warfare, cyber attacks, they use immigration as a weapon... There are cyber attacks every day that are, in addition, bigger than the one we suffered in 2007 [the great massive Russian cyber attack against Estonia, which had to close its digital borders]. And other countries, such as Belgium or the Czech Republic, have discovered the networks that Russians have within their societies.
P.
Hybrid warfare…
R.
We are very focused on conventional warfare, but we must also focus on hybrid attacks, such as migratory pressure directed at the Russian border with Finland, the Polish border, the Lithuanian border... Also on the southern flank, from Syria or in the Sahel. Russia knows that immigration, and the debate around it, is a vulnerability of Europe and is trying to create migratory pressure as well, for example by attacking energy and civil infrastructure in Ukraine so that those citizens flee as refugees and come to the EU. . Russia is really good at finding conflicts that already exist in our societies and adding fuel to the fire to create instability. And we must be very attentive, especially now that the elections to the European Parliament are approaching.
Q.
Some voices believe that the EU has embarked on too belligerent rhetoric when talking, for example, about the war economy. The Spanish president, Pedro Sánchez, spoke about it at the last European summit. What do you think?
A.
I don't know a single person in Ukraine who is pro-war. They are suffering from war every day. I also don't know anyone in Estonia, Poland or other countries bordering Ukraine or Russia who is in favor of war... We all want peace, but we know that the Kremlin's actions are the opposite of peace. The solution is not to give in, because their appetite will only increase, but to be strong enough and stand up to the bully, Russia, so that the war does not spread.
Q.
There are those who believe that the rearmament that the EU is undertaking can lead to a war.
A.
I think the opposite, because Russia is rearming. If we stand by and watch him do it, Russia will think that we are weak and that she can start a war, because we have nothing to defend ourselves with. If we have prepared ourselves, she will also make calculations and maneuvers so that we do not succeed. Whether it is a credible deterrent depends only on our defense investments. We have to do more to prevent war...
Q.
The perception of the risk of war reaching the EU is not the same in all member states, it is not the same in those furthest from Russia.
A.
The question is how we respond to that risk. Until it happened, many did not believe that Russia was going to invade and attack Ukraine. They said it was impossible, that war is expensive, that [Vladímir Putin] could not conquer it. But a dictator does not think like the leader of a democratic country and his calculations are different. So the only thing that deters Russia or the aggressors is strength, weakness provokes them. I understand that there are countries in different positions because they are further away from this war, but what the 1930s taught us is that Europe is a relatively small continent and if something happens in one country it spreads, and it does so quickly, affecting everyone. That's why we're in this together. At that time, the German occupation of the Rhineland, the Spanish civil war, the Italian invasion of Ethiopia were treated as separate crises... But you have to see the full picture. We cannot make the same mistake.
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