Uli Hoeneß was first a player, then manager and finally president of FC Bayern. In an interview, he talks about his life after the football business, his legacy and his successors.
Mr. Hoeneß, Herbert Hainer has moved into your office, the legendary rattan furniture is no longer on Säbener Straße. But where?
Hoeneß: At my home. I have a room in the basement - the only one that reminds me a little of football. There they are and they fit wonderfully.
What is left in the room
A counterfeit porcelain Champions League trophy someone once gave me. Also gifts for a few birthdays.
And you go to the basement every now and then and become nostalgic?
I see these things every day - because I have to go through the room when I go to the garage. I'm always happy.
How was the last three months without the daily dose of FC Bayern?
Hoeneß: As always, I tried to approach these things without a plan. I said before: On November 16, a new era begins, I let everything come to me. And that's exactly how it went. By Christmas, almost everything was the same as before, because many dates were still set. But since January 5, after my birthday, things have calmed down.
Hoeneß in conversation with reporters Hanna Raif and Manuel Bonke on Säbener Straße.
© sampi cs / Stefan Matzke / Stefan Matzke / sampics
Does the fax sometimes stand still?
Let's put it this way: it is in operation every day. I read more now than before and I give my wife more help. Otherwise I am involved by phone with my son in the factory if he has a question. Or I go with him when he visits a key customer. And if, for example, a Hasan Salihamidzic or Marko Pesic calls with questions, I am of course always available.
How often are you at Säbener Straße?
On average, I would say: once a week. There is no set plan, but there are still a few things to do.
Her strike almost fell on the club's 120th birthday. Do you care about anniversaries?
I didn't schedule it that way - if that's what you mean (laughs). But seriously: I never gave much on dates and anniversaries. Sure, on big birthdays - 40, 50, 60 - I made big celebrations, that will also happen on the 70th. My high school graduation was 50 years ago in summer, when we invite all of our school colleagues from back then to a party, as well as friends from the dance school. And in three years our golden wedding is coming up. Of course this has to be celebrated!
Her name is omnipresent when it comes to FC Bayern anniversaries. Is FC Bayern your work?
I was 50 years at FC Bayern on July 1st, almost half of 120 years. Ten years as a player, almost 40 years as a manager, board member and president. So I think I have made a big contribution to ensuring that FC Bayern is in the right place today.
"I always wanted to offer the FC Bayern fan a home"
What are you particularly proud of?
Many things. Whether that was the build-up of the professional team, Säbener Strasse, the youth performance center, the Allianz Arena. I can still remember that the day before we started working with Allianz, we negotiated until five in the morning. Thanks to my commitment, the basketball project has also become what it is today. When the SAP Garden is finished in two years - which I hope and believe will be the most beautiful hall in the world - the circle closes. Because I always wanted to offer FC Bayern fans a home, something that they can identify with.
This is the Allianz Arena and then the SAP Garden.
I agree. The infrastructure is in place - and let's stay with basketball: with the strengthening of the professional department, the young people have also become role models who want to play basketball. There are plans to do something in the youth basketball center. What people always love to forget, because you always talk about the professionals: Young people are one of them! In football we could have ten times as many youth teams, the demand is enormous.
"Visions I always had"
© sampics / Stefan Matzke / Stefan Matzke / sampics
Was the best time for you at FC Bayern?
Of course, the most beautiful is to play yourself, the second most beautiful is to be responsible. Because you can make people happy. When I come to the Allianz Arena - even today - and see these emotions in red and white, that's a great thing. But what you have to say: As a player you don't have so much responsibility and pressure. That was more in my second career. Because if things go wrong, you don't have ten men to help out.
How was your everyday life as a player on Säbener Straße?
When I look at the course here (looks out of the window), I see a golf course-quality lawn. There used to be no lawn between the two penalty areas in March. There was the wooden hut where we changed, that's it. And when it had snowed 20 or 30 centimeters, we couldn't kick. So we shoveled all snow first - and then we started.
40 years later there is still talk of the eleven from the 1970s. Will there be another era like this?
When I ask the ten-year-old children today who Sepp Maier and Katsche Schwarzenbeck are, they no longer know. Our time is moving fast. But nevertheless one has to say that this aggregation of huge personalities was really unique at that time. It was actually a coincidence, because no transfers were made. Beckenbauer, Müller, Maier, Breitner, Schwarzenbeck later Rummenigge - we have shaped German football as a generation. We can be proud of it. And what's interesting: From this time, FC Bayern's leadership has become modern. Franz Beckenbauer, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, my humble self.
The 2001 Champions League winners - Kahn, Salihamidzic - are now employees.
It's interesting, yes. Because little came after us for a long time, but now it comes again. When I think about it: Even a Bixente Lizarazu could do it all, an intelligent, honest person. There are phases with players who are personalities. And then there are phases with those that were good kickers, but could not take on responsible work.
"Under Udo Lattek, the games sometimes took two hours"
How was training done?
Mostly old was played against young. The games took two hours under Udo Lattek. Beckenbauer and Müller were among the older players - they had to play until they won. The exit was never open (laughs).
Your biggest games - against Dresden and Atlético, right?
Exactly, they were the most spectacular. I played a lot of big games, but the one against Atlético in the 1974 final was awesome. The replay in Brussels, Gerd scored two goals, I scored two goals. I can still remember as if it was yesterday: I was completely finished, but there was this pot in the cabin. I thought to myself: if you can say that you are happy - today I am! I wanted to stop time.
Uli Hoeneß (l) and Paul Breitner in 1973: "Paul Breitner and I actually intended to go to TSV 1860".
© dpa / Istvan Bajzat
The end of his career came early - a stroke of luck for FCB afterwards.
... and two coincidences. Paul Breitner and I actually intended to go to TSV 1860. The then managing director Mayerböck really wanted us, he went to Freilassing on Saturday and to Ulm on the other day to embrace us. He always said: "I just happened to be around." But nobody from FC Bayern came forward. Our youth national coach Udo Lattek then took us aside during a course and said: Wait for a signature! A little later Robert Schwan was with us - and then everything was clear with Bayern. 1200 marks basic salary and 20 000 marks hand money.
And the second coincidence?
When I played in Nuremberg in the last six months of my career, here at FC Bayern was the big revolution with Sepp Maier, Paul Breitner and many others. One thing is clear: If I had been here, I would have been right in the middle. But because I wasn't there, the then President Wilhelm Neudecker called me in need and asked if I would like to become a Bayern manager. My knee would not have lasted long - that's why I agreed.
Did you already have an idea of your FC Bayern in 1979?
There wasn't much to manage in the beginning. At that time, 85 percent of the revenue was audience revenue. But it was always my plan to make the club independent of it. Today it is only around 18 percent.
"The Fassbender never looked at me again"
You have always liked to generate new sources of income.
We also had a campaign with Gerhard Mayer-Vorfelder: 50 million. At that time we had 18 or 20 million TV revenues. The Fassbender (Heribert Fassbender, editor's note) never looked at me again: you are the money cutter from Säbener Straße (laughs). We then managed to sell the television rights for 50 million. At that time I said: At some point it will cost a billion! I always had visions ...
Just like with the ice hockey fans who practiced battle songs with the FCB supporters before the HSV game in 1979. According to legend, they had hired extra ice hockey singers from Düsseldorf.
(smiles): Yes, right. With us there was often no real atmosphere in the stadium. And DEG was the ultimate when it came to catch singing. They always sang Kling, Glöckchen (Hoeneß starts the song) at Christmas and always practiced all songs to perfection. I went there two or three times and was impressed. That doesn't exist, I thought to myself ... Then we invited a group of them and let them practice with a fan group. Ui, and once I pulled a slate…
Why?
We had a game against the Suttgarter Kickers. That was in December and we had around 20,000 spectators. Then I said: If we don't win by three goals today, the audience will get their money back. Then hell was going on, you can imagine.
If you see me as the Monsieur Attack today - everything is harmless compared to before. ”
© sampics / Stefan Matzke / Stefan Matzke / sampics
How did the game end?
Thank God won 3-0. Anything else would have been expensive. Therefore: If you see me today as the Monsieur Attack - everything is harmless compared to before. I really provoked that. In the beginning, when I was a young manager, I already extended my elbows. Grashoff, Lemke, as they weren't all called ... I wanted to get FC Bayern up there. And when we were upstairs, I started to distribute. Then we thought about how we as an association can help others. I recently read: “Giving rich through giving” is really a good saying.
Back then you were the spearhead, lawyer, spokesman, first fan: sometimes think, why do they need a different position for each function today?
No, that's what time brings. If the turnover multiplies, the responsibility must also be distributed differently. You can't think back now and long for the old days.
But indulge in a bit of nostalgia?
That is. I can still remember: We celebrated the first Christmas party at the Gasthof Hinterbrühl. Back then, my wife and a friend decorated the whole room. The first artists to appear were Rainhard Fendrich and Gerhard Polt, with whom I am a good friend today. We had lunch at the time and I asked him what he needed as props.
And?
Hoeneß: A packet of chewing gum and an Asian woman - for a sketch. Then we asked a flight attendant at Singapore Airlines if she would like to join in. Those were other times (smiles).
What was your most spectacular transfer?
Sören Lerby's commitment. At that time we had seven million marks in debt and had an advisory board meeting at lunchtime. Because: Sören cost two million, so we had to get the go. Then Rudolf Houdek said: Oh, it doesn't matter to the two million either. If you think so, just buy it. Then Willi O. Hoffmann, Pal Csernai and I went to Amsterdam to look at the player again. Csernai and I had only seen him live once and the Hoffmann also wanted to have a look. Then we go there, the game goes 0-0 and the Lerby was maybe twice on the ball. And should we spend all our money on that?
Which FC Bayern did.
Yes, we had agreed with Sören that we would meet in a fish restaurant after the game. We took a seat, ordered wine and waited for Sören. Then I ask the Csernai: Well, Mr. Csernai, what do we do now? Then he said: Based on what I saw today, we cannot buy it. I said: You don't mean that now? He: Yes, we cannot buy it. And we were just having a nice time discussing, no decision had yet been made - the door opens, Sören came up the stairs, sits down and the Hoffmann says: Dear Mr. Lerby, I would like to invite you as a Bayern player welcome? The Csernai fell under the table (laughs).
"Today investors are mostly only interested in maximum profit"
Who was your most difficult negotiating partner?
When we bought Adolfo Valencia, I started negotiating with Kurt Hegerich in Madrid. After a day and a half we weren't finished, then Hegerich said to the Valencia people: Gentlemen, I have to fly home tonight, I have an important appointment there. Then they said: Then we'll fly with you! Then the whole delegation flew from Adolfo to Munich and we negotiated the next day.
Why is FCB always so successful in sports? Many clubs still have charisma, but no more titles.
Today, behind the scenes, investors are mostly only interested in maximum profit. For example, a stadium is sometimes sold for refinancing. Before someone tackles the Allianz Arena, we would cut our hands off.
Her claim was always to never spend more than you earn. Now you have told us beforehand that despite debt you still had two million for Sören Lerby ...
Moment! Then we sold the Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, then everything was back in the green. With the sale of Karl-Heinz, eleven million, we paid our debts and with the four million that remained, we bought Lothar Matthäus for 2.2 million and Roland Wohlfarth for one million from Duisburg. And the remaining million was the basis that we never had debts again.
Is that something you are proud of?
Extreme!
And without any investor.
There would of course be plenty of investors for Bayern! I estimate the value of the association today at around three billion euros. But with the deal with our members, it is almost no longer possible to attract additional investors. We say: 30 percent and no more votes. And if we wanted to change that, we would need three-quarters of approval from the members. You know that yourself: we'll never get it! That's why it's wrong when people say: Why is FC Bayern against 50 + 1? We have 30 + 1!
The tiresome topic.
We just want the others to have the opportunity. They always blame us: you only prevent us from raising no capital so that we cannot attack you. And I say: You can take 100% of me, we make our way!
“I prefer to give less material and take care of people who are in a bad way.
© sampics / Stefan Matzke / Stefan Matzke / sampics
Herbert Hainer recently said that social responsibility will become even more important for professional clubs in the future.
Yes, and the most important thing is to set an example. I prefer to give less material and take care of people who are in a bad way. It is crucial.
And are the right people at the helm now?
I hope so! You just started. But I have always wanted this social commitment, I said that at the annual general meeting: I hope that FC Bayern will always live up to its social responsibility. It is crucial that many people have been made happy.
Especially fans of other clubs have given you a lot of fun with rescuer games.
What was going on in St. Pauli in the past… When we played there, I only crouched because the coins flew. Or someone once said: "Hoeneß" - and, Batsch, I had half a liter of beer on my face. It was all there. Then we did this game once - and we've been the heroes ever since. Pauli was special because two classes met. They always played it up: here the big Bavarians, the capitalists. There the socialists from Pauli. I just wanted to prove this to them: that an alleged capitalist can also be social.
"But I never gave up my character on the coat hook"
Have there been situations that did not conform to your own opinion but that were profitable for Bayern?
No, I always tried to serve FC Bayern. Franz Beckenbauer once mentioned the word serve in a board meeting. Back then Franz said: Gentlemen, I can tell you one thing: all we do here is to serve FC Bayern. I always tried to internalize that. But I never gave up my character on the coat hook. I always went to the limit, but not beyond that.
Where do you see FC Bayern in the next 120 years?
I am pretty confident that FC Bayern will continue to march ahead - both in terms of sport and society. This combination: Munich, Bavaria, almost 300,000 members, the fan base - you won't lose that easily. I hope that those responsible will be as careful as I when looking for successors.
In what way?
I could easily have done it for three years. But I thought: Now I've found the right people. And neither of them would have been there in three years. Both Oliver Kahn and Herbert Hainer. That was the crucial aspect, which is why I said: now it's over! I knew Herbert was 65, in three years he would be 68 - then he would have been too old. And Oliver was at a crossroads: is he really going back into industry, into business? I talked to him for almost a year. But never officially, I only arranged meetings like that (smiles). Then I once said: can you imagine that? He said: No, I can't! So I suggested that we meet again in four weeks. With every conversation I was more certain that he was the right man.
It will turn out.
Yes, you're right! You can take the Emperor of China or Apple's Tim Cook - you have no guarantee of that either. I never presume to know beforehand how it will end. But I presume to say: I try very hard when choosing. And then it has to fit.
Oliver Kahn takes over at FC Bayern Munich and was already involved in a first transfer. Now there is speculation about new personnel.