If you want to get sick leave, you have to go to the doctor - this rule Can Ansay, a lawyer by profession, for nonsense. He founded the company AU-Schein.de, which issues employees the health certificate via WhatsApp.
Our self-test showed: with just a few clicks, the software can be outsmarted. Here, Ansay explains why, despite possible manipulation, he relies on the self-responsibility of his customers - and why, in his opinion, Blaumacher anyway not the problem.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Mr. Ansay, your company writes sick people with cold, without ever having to speak to a doctor. How do you ensure that a patient is not just feigning illness?
Ansay: We can not check if anyone is pretending to be ill. You have to trust the patient. This is what a medical practitioner does when the patient complains of pain. Since one does not assume that the patient has previously googled the symptoms necessary for a sick leave.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How to recognize a cold by WhatsApp?
Ansay: The patient indicates on our website, what cold symptoms occur to him, for example, if he has a headache and a stuffy nose. We also ask how long he has been feeling, whether he has been on sick leave and how long he will be unable to work. Then we exclude risk factors: For example, with fever over 38.5 degrees, pregnancy or worse symptoms there is no certificate. Otherwise, our doctor puts his stamp on it, and the certificate comes via WhatsApp.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The system is easily comprehensible. We have tried it: I can repeat the symptom selection until I am sick enough and get a certificate. Does the system check how many attempts a patient has made?
Ansay: No, at the moment we do not have any technical devices to record this. But we are working on it. But even there I say: You can think of symptoms synonymous with a normal doctor's visit. And in case of doubt, you will even be on sick leave longer than with us. A maximum of twice a year for a maximum of three days.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: To get a medical certificate, it needs the signature of a doctor. Who signs with you?
Ansay: We transmit the data to one of our doctors. He sits in Lübeck and looks again at the information, then he puts his signature on the certificate when he diagnoses a cold.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How many employees does your doctor write each day?
Ansay: Since our foundation in December 2018, we have issued about 10,000 certificates. That always varies a bit, currently it's about 80 a day. Overall, the order numbers are stable and independent of the weather.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You can choose between one, two or three days inability to work - below is the note: "doctor follows their desire." Does not this animate you to the blue things?
Ansay: We think: Everyone knows for themselves, when he has a cold and how long it takes to get back to work. At a normal doctor's visit, it works the same way. The duration of incapacity is agreed with the patient. If one says as a patient: "In three days it is good again", then says no doctor: "No, two are enough." Incidentally, there are studies that show that Blaumacher are not the problem.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Why should it be okay for employers if their employees stay home longer than necessary?
Ansay: The problem is presenteeism. Many workers still think that they are doing something good for their company when they go to work sick. But that is a huge mistake. The damage is greater for a company if a sick employee drags himself to work and infects the others than if he stays as a precaution for a few days at home. The German Trade Union Confederation and the Robert Koch Institute also warn against it. Although there are studies in which the damage caused by presentativeness are numbered many times higher than those caused by absenteeism, the belief that the economic damage caused by Blaumacher is greater.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But you seem to have come to doubts. Previously, you had the option of getting sick leave for five days. Why do not you offer that anymore?
Ansay: We have changed that again in terms of patient safety. We also want to put off Blaumacher. Three days sick leave are in our view medically acceptable for symptoms that speak for a cold. If it is not better then you should have a thorough check-up.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How well can a computer even assess diseases - in contrast to a doctor who closely monitors his patients?
Ansay: I was sick a few years ago: coughing with sputum. But different doctors diagnosed me nothing. Later it turned out that I had sinusitis. I then entered my symptoms as a test into a symptom checker. He spent probabilities on various possible diagnoses of my symptoms - and was right.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You want to extend the dispatch of certificates in the future - on "gastrointestinal influenza" and "pain in the lower back". Are not diagnoses harder?
Ansay: The diagnosis is already complicated in these diseases. However, our experts tell us that the history of these illnesses is sufficiently reliable. We want to introduce this later this year.
