The baby boomers still ensure prosperity. However, the farewell to the labor market of the strong-born cohorts of the fifties and sixties comes with power. This threatens the standard of living and puts a strain on social security systems. Because fewer and fewer people have to earn more. Those who were too many for a long time will soon be far too few.
Shouldn't the baby boomers just work longer there, especially since life expectancy also increases? The problem: you don't want to, as Hans Martin Hasselhorn found out - on the contrary. Is that selfish? And what should you do? The Wuppertal researcher provides answers.
SPIEGEL: Has anyone ever thrown "Okay, Boomer" at your head?
Hans Martin Hasselhorn: No, what did I miss?
SPIEGEL: A phrase from the youth language that young people are currently using to defend themselves against the teachings of baby boomers. Would you have any understanding for such reactions?
Hasselhorn: I would like generations to take a critical look at their predecessors. We baby boomers did that ourselves. And I also try to promote my students as critical thinkers who rise up against the teachers. There will always be conflicts between the generations and that should be the case so that society can develop further.
SPIEGEL: Could you also understand the older generation if they feel less respected or repressed as a result - and therefore possibly retire from working life?
Hasselhorn: This idea is foreign to me. Because the older generation does not get out of work earlier because they feel misunderstood by the younger generation. Rather, it is the baby boomer generation itself that lives in an environment in which it is assumed that one will leave working life at an early stage. Of the people we interviewed representatively, 75 percent state that the prevailing attitude in their environment is to stop sooner rather than later.
SPIEGEL: Where does this culture of early exit come from?
Hasselhorn: Being in employment has a bad reputation in Germany. The common wording "you have to work" shows that. But there are almost always other aspects such as health problems or financial reasons. Many people with limited financial resources state that they want to work longer. But in reality, what you want is more of a must.
SPIEGEL: And for those who don't have to: How can the image of work be improved so that more people want to work longer?
Hasselhorn: That can only be improved by improving the work itself, and for this all social groups have to pull together. It is not enough to simply demand that physical and psychological working conditions have to improve. Bad work can no longer be tolerated socially and politically as it is today.
Jens Büttner / DPA
Older workers in a company in Wismar 2014 (symbol): Informal breaks are fewer
SPIEGEL: Where does that happen particularly often?
Hasselhorn: This may affect nursing staff, truck or bus drivers, but also employees in hotels and restaurants, some of them craftsmen and temporary workers. We see that there are regularly two groups within many occupational groups: those with generally favorable conditions and others with less favorable conditions in which social interaction, personnel management or professional prospects are worse. But that means that something can happen in the factories. Because three quarters of the people surveyed in our study mean a lot or a lot of their work. They like to do it, but it is the general conditions that make it so difficult for them. In the past, as a bus driver, for example, you could play cards with colleagues in a small house again, today these informal breaks are becoming less and the contact with colleagues you get from them is becoming less and less. Where there are stricter deadlines, the burden increases.
SPIEGEL: What are the consequences of extending your working life?
Hasselhorn: Many people are currently expecting or hoping that they will be able to quit early in their last years of employment. And many of them will be disappointed because they have to work longer. Some of them will find it okay afterwards, but some will also suffer enormously because, for example, they simply cannot do it anymore.
SPIEGEL: Isn't it also selfish when people say goodbye to the pension fund earlier?
Hasselhorn: The question of when people want to get out of working life is a highly individual one. One cannot blame the individual if he wishes to leave his possibly unloved work prematurely. But here the state has to intervene to regulate so that a balance between the generations is created.
SPIEGEL: But the baby boomers also gave birth to significantly fewer children than previous generations.
Hasselhorn: Yes, there will be fewer and fewer people available in the labor market in the coming years and decades. In view of this, the Federal Ministry of Economics identified an economic-political problem for Germany in 2015. Politicians now want to keep all possible groups in professional life longer. It is about women, the elderly, migrants and also people with disabilities. For most people, the prospective retirement age is currently 67 and I believe that we have not yet reached the end. If you look at the ceaselessly increasing life expectancy, I think it is possible to extend your working life further. I just don't think that should be done equally for everyone.
SPIEGEL: What do you mean by that?
Hasselhorn: The decisive factor should be the activity actually carried out. The severe physical and psychological stress should be registered separately throughout the working life and for people with such workload there should be earlier exit options with a full pension. But we also have to give people with reduced health better opportunities than today to retire early from dignity with substantial financial support. Often these are people from socio-economically weaker groups where everything comes together: hard work, health problems and financial hardship. Many of them have no choice but to continue working today.
SPIEGEL: The much-cited roofer at 67.
Hasselhorn: By the mid-60s there are almost no roofers left on the roofs, they mostly have 55 other jobs or have already dropped out of working life. But it can be, for example, workers in logistics, construction or in long-term shift work.
SPIEGEL: How do you imagine that: Are you thinking of a point system for the severity of work?
Hasselhorn: That could be a way. In Austria and Hungary, pension models are already being used that take into account the severity of the job - and not, for example, membership of certain occupational groups. General pension privileges for entire occupational groups are problematic because not all members of a profession work to the same extent under stressful conditions. The current view of France also shows that it is very difficult to withdraw such privileges.
SPIEGEL: What can you do about the culture of early exit if people think it's up to them to stop earlier?
Hasselhorn: We need a social debate about why working in Germany has such a bad reputation. In the course of this, everyone should be aware that extending working life is not possible without improving working conditions, and that at the same time we have to change our attitudes. In Scandinavia, for example, there is a much more positive work culture than here. Many more people are employed there because they want to be employed. In Germany, some people only realize this when they retire. Then they realize that the work has been personality enhancing.
SPIEGEL: What role does digitization play in motivation? Do older people feel left behind and no longer needed?
Hasselhorn: Most workers are dealing with some form of digitalization at work, but that is no longer new to the baby boomer generation either. According to our knowledge, she generally copes well with the digital requirements of her work. But there are also people who suffer more from them. These are, for example, people who actually chose their profession to work with other people and who then find that they have a lot to do with data and IT in everyday work, for example because they have to document a lot. This includes, for example, nursing staff and primary school teachers, but also simple manual professions.
SPIEGEL: You yourself belong to the baby boomer generation. What do you say to people around you who want to stop earlier?
Hasselhorn: I smile and we discuss the various reasons. At the airport I used to sit with a German and a Swede. They were both my age. The German said that she wanted to quit her job as early as possible. The Swede said that she wanted to work as long as she could. And I would also like this attitude for German society.
SPIEGEL: When do you want to retire yourself?
Hasselhorn: As late as possible. If my health participates, it can be 80 years. With retirement you can usually determine how much you work, when and what you still do and can also cancel things more easily. This self-determination should exist for more and more people even in late regular working life, so that they can make their last years of work more satisfied. But there are no such approaches in Germany yet.
