Hydrogen: Government expects coverage gap

Electrolysis for green hydrogen

Photo: DLR / Thomas Ernsting

SPIEGEL:

Mr. Kaufmann, does Germany as an industrial location have a future?

Kaufmann

: Of course.

Why?

SPIEGEL

: Because green electricity is expensive to produce in Germany, but industrial production is drawn to where renewable energies are particularly cheap.

Experts speak of the renewables pull effect.

Kaufmann:

I think this factor is overrated.

Many industries are strongly tied to a specific location, they develop their products in close collaboration with customers and are dependent on a strong base of skilled workers.

Companies are reluctant to break open such ecosystems.

And that's a good thing, because that would be fatal for Germany as a business location.

SPIEGEL:

In order to keep industry in the country, even with rising CO2 prices, you want to convert it energetically to hydrogen, which is produced with green electricity.

However, you do not support the companies particularly energetically in this changeover.

Kaufmann:

With all due respect:

The federal government is funding the implementation of the national hydrogen strategy with nine billion euros as part of the economic stimulus package alone.

In addition, there is further funding from the federal and state governments.

The federal and state governments support German companies in participating in pan-European hydrogen projects along the entire value chain.

Energy research funding has also been continuously expanded over the past few years.

SPIEGEL:

The billions from the hydrogen strategy flow into 62 different projects, some of which stretch over many years.

Industry representatives find this to be fragmented and slow.

Kaufmann

: But it isn't.

Many of the 62 projects are closely intertwined.

And the funding often flows into large consortia, which in turn invest billions.

The Federal Ministry of Economics expects that investments in Germany of 33 billion euros can be leveraged.

There is also cooperation at EU level.

All in all, a lot of money is being moved there.

SPIEGEL:

German heavy industry receives just two billion euros in government funding.

Kaufmann:

Here too

there are also many billions from the private sector.

But in fact: the next federal government could add a shovel in this area.

SPIEGEL:

According to the National Hydrogen Strategy, generation capacities of five gigawatts are to be created by 2030.

That will not be enough back and forth to cover domestic needs.

Kaufmann:

According to everything I have heard from conversations, we will probably even exceed this goal.

By the way: debates about producing as much hydrogen as possible in Germany are kokolores.

Germany currently imports around 70 percent of its primary energy.

This is unlikely to change significantly in the hydrogen age either.

SPIEGEL:

So we remain dependent on the rest of the world?

Kaufmann:

Yes.

But we will soon be able to choose our suppliers better.

Half the world comes into question as a supplier of green hydrogen, and the first supply partnerships are already on the way.

The more oligarchic fossil energy system is likely to give way to a more heterarchic renewable energy world.

SPIEGEL:

Perhaps in the long term.

In the short and medium term, the import of green hydrogen still looks poor.

Which countries will deliver the fastest?

Kaufmann:

Australia has great potential - not only because wind and sun enable particularly cheap green electricity production here, but also because the government and the private sector are promoting an H2 economy.

Accordingly, we have already concluded a delivery agreement with Australia.

I think Canada, Portugal and Spain are just as promising.

SPIEGEL:

In the Spanish hydrogen strategy, however, hardly any exports are foreseen until 2030.

Kaufmann:

During my visits to Spain I got the impression that there is great interest in building up an H2 export industry as quickly as possible.

SPIEGEL:

You also had a potential atlas for Africa drawn up.

According to this, up to 165,000 terawatt hours of hydrogen could be produced in West Africa alone.

But there is usually a lack of technology, infrastructure and money to implement H2 projects.

Kaufmann:

That's right.

In most African countries, partner projects are needed to build up an industry.

The first are already being planned.

We only agreed a hydrogen partnership with Namibia at the end of August.

The government there is pursuing the goal of a hydrogen economy with great ambition.

The first deliveries should come before the middle of the decade.

SPIEGEL:

So Germany's industry should become climate-neutral, but it won't get enough green H2 from Germany and abroad in the coming years.

Summarized correctly?

Kaufmann:

Yes.

There will be a shortfall in coverage for a transitional period.

SPIEGEL:

The steel company

Thyssenkrupp wants to close this gap with so-called blue hydrogen.

It is generated with the help of natural gas.

What do you make of it?

Kaufmann

: With the National Hydrogen Strategy, the federal government says very clearly: From our point of view, only green hydrogen is sustainable in the long term.

However, we assume that a market for blue hydrogen will emerge.

We could at least temporarily import this in the ramp-up phase of the market.

The first quantities should come onto the market in the next two years.

SPIEGEL:

Natural gas causes a considerable amount of CO2.

The even more harmful greenhouse gas methane is also released through leaks in pipelines.

Doesn't that counter the idea of ​​a low carbon economy?

Kaufmann:

Yes and no.

Blue hydrogen is at best a bridging technology, i.e. for the transition until sufficient green hydrogen is available.

Accordingly, we will not fund any infrastructure for blue hydrogen in Germany.

But it is good that H2 is quickly available.

Because in this way the necessary infrastructure can develop now - from industry to the transport network to the mobility and heating sector.

SPIEGEL:

The French

rely on red hydrogen from atomic electricity.

That would at least be climate-neutral - but it seems hardly plausible in Germany, which is a nuclear phase-out country.

Kaufmann:

That's not an option for Germany.

But at the EU level, the French are strongly committed to red hydrogen.

And it is very possible that they will ultimately succeed with it.

Whether red hydrogen can then prevail against green in the markets is another question.

SPIEGEL:

There is still

gray and turquoise hydrogen, these are not climate neutral either.

Why do you think that greener will prevail in the end?

Kaufmann:

Because in perspective it will be the cheapest option.

Renewable energies are already the cheapest option for generating electricity in many regions.

In Canada and Australia there are already the first projects that want to produce green hydrogen for 2.50 euros per kilogram.

These are absolutely competitive prices.

Even in Germany, manufacturers are aiming for a retail price of three to four euros from 2035 thanks to economies of scale.

The demand for green H2 will also soon increase rapidly.

SPIEGEL:

Why do you believe that?

Kaufmann:

Because more and more customers are pushing for more climate-friendly solutions. This is why manufacturers of e-cars are already increasingly interested in steel made with green hydrogen. Cruise companies also want to offer emission-free travel soon. From what I've observed, a premium segment for green hydrogen will emerge in the short term. In the medium and long term, the technology will then conquer the mass markets.