SPIEGEL : Shortly before the beginning of the Amazonas synod, the situation in the region has become more acute: the rainforest is burning, the habitat of the indigenous people is being destroyed, the consequences for the global climate are immense.
Franz-Josef Overbeck : These fires are like a shouting, a warning call that we urgently need to agree on standards to save the green lung of the earth. All the aberrations that we have been pointing out for years come to light here. When Brazil's President Bolsonaro turns down a $ 20 million G7 aid offer, he literally pours oil into the fire ignoring the indigenous needs.
SPIEGEL : What solutions does the church have for the problems of the Amazon?
Overbeck : We support a number of aid projects in the region and are present almost everywhere. That's why we can network very well. We enjoy trust among many people and can influence the administrations and local people. It is about the fight against environmental destruction for profit, the preservation of indigenous culture, help for the poor and education.
SPIEGEL : Corruption and mafia structures, however, make it more difficult to influence the region, and the threshold of violence is low.
Overbeck : Yes, it is extremely important to find the right contact person. As soon as the local leaders act exclusively politically-ideologically motivated, it will be difficult. With massive economic interests often only the public protest remains - and many committed people have already paid with their lives.
Bruno Kelly / REUTERS
Firefighters in the Brazilian Amazon
SPIEGEL : Amazonia is the scene of massive violence and bloody conflicts. They have been military bishops for many years and emphasize that military force is needed to guarantee world peace. Is that Christian?
Overbeck : The gospel says that charity also includes love for oneself. Sometimes you have to threaten violence so that violence is not used or stopped. The ethical mission of German soldiers today is to stand for security, peace and justice. Among other things, they have a right to self-defense. But it's never about killing people in themselves.
SPIEGEL : But "peace service" is just the usual euphemism for a very dirty business. In an emergency, soldiers kill or are killed, while others make money on weapons trafficking.
Overbeck : Nobody comes out of this danger. But only with an ethical approach do you not solve the problem, then you would be beyond this world. I do not encourage anyone to war or violence. On the contrary, I encourage peace. But it is due to the complexity of the world that soldiers must defend peace in an extremely violent environment, and that has very concrete consequences.
SPIEGEL : What can the Amazon Synod actually accomplish?
Overbeck : Representatives from more than 110 dioceses of the Amazon will come to Rome. This is an important forum for debate. The church needs to raise awareness that the exploitation of nature must end. And we have to increase the political clout on the ground. The Synod marks a turning point, as it becomes clear how much a huge problem of a very large region of our earth can become a problem for all people and the whole world. We want to take on these challenges and do everything possible for a solution. In that sense, I hope, nothing will be the same afterwards.
SPIEGEL : But the Synod is also a fighting arena for inner-church opponents. Conservative forces suspect that German bishops want to exploit the synod to push through their liberal agenda.
Overbeck : That's nonsense. The problems at the synod are so strong that the people of the Amazon need answers. The church has a responsibility to create, which results from our faith - and which in this case is political. The pastoral situation in the Amazon is often so difficult that, for example, the shortage of priests in Germany seems almost harmless by comparison. There are huge areas that are looked after by a few clergymen. This includes pastoral care. For that we need solutions.
SPIEGEL : This pastoral vacuum is increasingly filled by evangelicals and Pentecostal churches.
Overbeck : Yes, very often. So we have to ask ourselves: how can we use creative solutions to create new and attractive paths that strengthen faith and the church? While the sects are getting more and more popular, the number of Catholics in the region is falling. It is therefore important to find solutions so that services are possible everywhere and on a regular basis.
SPIEGEL : The few Catholic priests have to cover immense distances to visit their communities. The working paper on the Synod recommends that elderly and respected fathers of families (Viri probati) be ordained to the priesthood in order to ensure that the local faithful are looked after.
Overbeck : That would be a big step for our tradition. In the Catholic Church there are in exceptional cases married, formerly Protestant pastors who have converted to the Catholic Church and are now performing priestly ministry there. Orthodoxy also knows the married clergy. But for us this is new. In view of the ongoing shortage of priests one should think about it. To give up celibacy in principle, but I think wrong.
SPIEGEL : Will the pope allow the Viri probati in Amazonia and then gradually open the priesthood to married people worldwide?
Overbeck : With this question, you quickly get caught between many, especially inner-church fronts. Let's put it this way: It would be a miracle - and miracles need time. The implementation of such innovations is a huge challenge and needs examination. But she is possible. Francis rightly does not want to make Viri probati a political issue. His goal is to keep the church together and avoid a split in any case.
SPIEGEL : Above all indigenous people should be called to give the local church an "Amazonian face".
Overbeck : Behind this is the question of how inculturation works and what it actually means today. The classic missionary, colonial parameters are no longer valid in almost all cases. Our church does not want to be clerical and patronizing. We focus on dialogue and pastoral sensitivity.
Fernando Bizerra / EPA-EFE / REX
Members of the Brazilian Xikrin in the northern state of Para
SPIEGEL : The ordination of women is obviously not an issue. However, it is suggested that women should increasingly be placed in management positions.
Overbeck : The face of the local church is already female, the work of religious women, for example, is indispensable. But the role of women in society is different in Central and South America, the Caribbean and many other parts of the world than in ours. Equality will come in the long run, in whatever way. But I do not think that aspect will play a big role at the Amazon Synod.
SPIEGEL : In his letter "to the pilgrim people of God in Germany" the Pope warned in June against a secularization of the Church. Did he want to wipe out German reformers and prevent more synodality, ie participation and democracy?
Overbeck : Pope Francis does not call German Catholics to order. That's not how I understand the letter. He encourages us to patiently walk a common path that is deeply spiritual and serves the mission in our country. And he gives us to understand that we can not and should not tread on a national single path in the question of the synodality, but must think and act world church - in the sense of the whole church.
SPIEGEL : Could the German bishops at their assembly agree on common positions for the Amazon synod?
Overbeck : That was and is not our task! We support what is discussed at the Amazon Synod and decided together with the Pope.