So it's just Russian weeks. First the doping suspension for Russian athletes at the Olympics. Now the talk with Maybrit Illner: "Beloved enemy - does Europe need Putin?" And oh, sure, the Ukraine summit, the diplomatic card, the hiccup around the gas pipeline Nord Stream 2.
The broadcast title sounds like from a Wolfgang Petersen movie in the Cold War.
The one in which suddenly make emergency communities, for survival? Then it fits. Because as a central point it turned out on the evening, that apparently just something is turning in the world structure, seen from Europe: Au revoir USA, salut Russia - to position itself as EU stronger in NATO. Something fresh then blew over from the 20th century. Or as Alt-CSU editor Edmund Stoiber said in astonishing clarity: "Putin is not the big danger, it's Trump." That the US now tried to prevent the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany, so real: "So you do not deal with partners." In it the round was agreed.
And so there was Russia in all tastes, geostrategisch, economic policy, value-based, diplomatic. From the German point of view, from French, from Ukrainian, from NATO and the EU. And in the background, the constant hit on Hü (values) and Hott (geopolitical strategy).
Um.
Yes, exactly: So full was the program. For the format Polittalk quite unusual: louder guests who visibly had the urge to strain their brains. Matching the broadcast title, it was a round of amazing alliances. The insider: SPD Foreign Minister Heiko Maas ("I am quite well informed in the matter."). The duo Annalena Baerbock, co-chair of the Greens, and Edmund Stoiber: "The EU is an alliance of values, that is not NATO," said Baerbock, she wanted to join Stoiber, you need European sovereignty in NATO - as "peace power Europe ". "Absolutely," commented Stoiber, "absolutely".
"The difference between NATO and the EU is that the EU is a value alliance, which makes it so strong." @ABaerbock at "maybrit illner" on 12.12.2019.
The whole program: https://t.co/Kj7zsuwwhS#Tiergarten #Putin #Macron #NATO #Ukraine #Gazprom # NordStream2 #Russia #EU #illner pic.twitter.com/oIP2kUqvhr
Second, Stoiber in a round of Russia? Is not the honorary president of the CSU?
But that too. But he has taken the role of Elder Statesman from the dressing room, and it fits. The precision with which he outcasts one argument after the other, including applause, made the round partly to the Stoiber show, meant positively. Claire Demesmay from the German Council on Foreign Relations (DGAP) was worth gold as a French commentator ("Macron always tries to run on both tracks at the same time"). And Vladislav Below from the Center for German Research in Moscow, well: his German was so fragmentary that it would be unfair to quote him - he could have meant everything differently. Roughly: One would always misunderstand Putin. The rest was silent politely.
Did it go on?
Illner galloped in this one hour along a highly complex, power-politically crazy exciting thing along, with which one could easily fill several titles in the SPIEGEL. Motto: Can not work, we just do it. Always with Illners wonderful question in the ear: "Many wish a restart of the German-Russian relations Is contract murder a good first step?"
And? What happened to Russia?
The debate dragged on a round "Wash me, but do not make me wet" - which showed how unusual this idea is at this level: to turn away from the US, because Russia is considered unscrupulous, but ultimately predictable. So on the one hand strategic enthusiasm: "Do we really want to push the Russians further into the Chinese partnership?", Explained Stoiber Macron's approach, instead of winning her as a long-term partner? "That's an interesting idea!", He sprayed formally. "A Macron Understand!" Demesmay shouted, "it's unbelievable!" In general, she blabbered about how Macron's change, which had already been visible at the G7 summit in August, continues as a long-term strategy: signaling to Putin "that NATO's eastward enlargement was a provocation" and shouting at him, oh nonsense he was not an enemy.
The Russians do not "continue to engage in Chinese partnership". Edmund #Stoiber at "maybrit illner"
The whole program in the library: https://t.co/Kj7zsuwwhS#Putin #Ukraine # Nordstream2 # Sanctions #Ukraine #Macron pic.twitter.com/SCVxlYxaOS
And on the other hand?
When the question arose as to whether this was not hypocritical - sanctions and presumed contract killing here, gas purchase and discussions there - Heiko Maas replied: " Wherever I am traveling in this way, I often meet people who have to fear that they will to say the untruth. " But you also need that to negotiate peace, see Ukraine summit. Otherwise: sanctions, sanctions, sanctions, because international law, international law, international law.
Foreign Minister Heiko Maas (SPD) accuses Russian President Vladimir Putin of saying the untruth in the case of the Tiergarten murder.
The whole program in the media library: https://t.co/Kj7zsuwwhS@HeikoMaas @Foreign Office
#Tiergarten #Mord #Putin #Russia #illner @ZDFhot pic.twitter.com/qcYVWMuife
See that the party colleague: inside all the same way?
Not really. When Illner addressed Maas that some of his party colleagues: inside wanted a better relationship with Russia, with the sanctions, ah, he said: "I have to think about it for a moment" - answer open. Then she tickled Stoiber with the question whether Merkel was now a "lame duck" in the EU, then the sober: "That's the Council - everything is based on Macron." And it may be that Baerbock came across as friendly to NATO for some of the Greens: "The transatlantic friendship was the forerunner for Europe." And that of a party that did not exist without the NATO double-decision!
If the program was already so proppy - what fell down the back?
The combination of geo, energy and climate policy. Baerbock tried, emphasizing how shortsighted it is to be so geostrategically dependent on fossil fuels. And listened to Illner: "You can not only insist on sanctions and human rights, the political business in a government is a little more complicated." Thud.
So that's just the way it is: There is no Brexit call scheduled for the big UK election night. But one about Russia.
