MDR interview partner Björn Höcke (AfD)
Photo:MDR Thuringia
It starts right away in the first second, when the stream has officially started, but not yet the "summer interview" of the MDR. Moderator Lars Sänger shows Björn Höcke the way in the Landesfunkhaus: "I have to ask you around because of the corona ...", and the Thuringian AfD boss says humorously: "Inshallah, Bodo Ramelow would say".
It is politically and journalistically controversial whether discussions with right-wing extremists, let alone interviews, have to be conducted. The fascist ignores questions and uses every opportunity to get his catchphrases among the people in a reach-effective manner - so he beats the medium with his own weapons. Demands, however, to allow the AfD "not a minute" of airtime are easier than they are to be fulfilled.
The same is legally regulated in a constitutional state, and the State Broadcasting Treaty obliges ARD and ZDF to maintain "the objectivity and impartiality of reporting". So if you want to bring the parliamentary group leaders of the respective state parliaments in front of the camera, you cannot exclude the AfD group, which is very strong in the east, from this forum.
The RBB has only recently drawn its lessons from a disastrous "conversation at the lake" with Andreas Kalbitz and completely discontinued the series of summer interviews as "old-fashioned". And Peter Frey, ZDF editor-in-chief, doesn't want to see Björn Höcke on any of his talk shows anymore. This is how the dilemma can be avoided. You paint the sails or take a different route.
Bad to fear
An MDR, on the other hand, that in 2018 still wanted to have serious discussions about whether the racist N-word could still be used (a question that the broadcaster had already answered in an announcement with the full description of the term in 2018) before the broadcast was finally overturned), the same MDR, whose representative on election Sunday in Saxony 2019 had spoken of a possible "bourgeois coalition" of CDU and AfD, this MDR now wanted to grab the bull by the horns - and despite protests Even from within his own ranks, he didn’t give up his conversation with Björn Hocke.
So the question of the Höcke interview was not about whether, but about how.
The dramaturgy of the conversation gives an idea of the editorial preparation. Moderator Lars Sänger flies in at first, calls Höcke a "man who polarizes nationwide", and flatters him with questions about his national political ambitions - in order to immediately get the curve to the right-wing extremist wing: "Why do you evade your responsibility towards your supporters ? "
Interviewer Lars Sänger in conversation with Björn Höcke
Photo: MDR ThuringiaHöcke describes the "spirit" of the now disbanded wing as one of "solidary patriotism", the catchphrase is important to him, but Sänger does not give up. How should one "practically imagine" the dissolution of the wing? Oh, says Höcke, this grand piano "never existed formally".
Singer insists. Have you stopped meeting? Or what? Höcke says "one more time", he will do that more often, just as if he had already explained everything to the full, and quickly declared the right wing wing to be a fun celebration community in which one "is happy to be together sometimes," is casual together ".
Why did the AfD send its own candidate into the race in the election for Prime Minister in the third ballot and then vote for the FDP man Kemmerich? Singer says that he still doesn't understand that. Again Höcke evades and says, "Tactics are part of politics", he saw the chance for a "civil alliance".
Singer does not repeat the old mistake, says: "The other parties do not see this as a bourgeois alliance", whereupon Höcke accuses these other parties of having joined the left "mainstream". The more singers insist on the moral quality of this electoral ruse, the more Höcke runs out of chalk that he ate for this conversation.
Character traits, according to the moderator, are supposedly so important to Höcke. Was the maneuver morally okay? Whereupon Höcke would like to address the "real scandal" in his opinion, that "the God Chancellor" had a democratic election reversed.
"And still my question again!"
There was also no answer from Höcke to the question of how long his party would be able to hold him in view of the numerous exclusion proceedings against "wing" friends. Höcke speaks about financial policy and energy policy. Singer repeats the question ("And still my question again!"). Höcke talks about asylum policy. Singer insists and explains that even the AfD is now citing the protection of the constitution as a source. Höcke calls the protection of the constitution a "scandal authority".
This goes on for minutes, and Höcke slips away like a bar of soap in the tub, but always seems less relaxed than at the beginning of the conversation. Sometimes both men talk at the same time, Höcke excitedly about a country going "to the dogs", while singer unimpressed explains: "It's about a completely different question, Mr. Höcke", and it is "completely crazy", media always "framing" too assume, while he himself continually brings his own language images into play: "You name points that are irrelevant."
In response to his original question, asked repeatedly ("I would like to have an answer from you to the question: How long do you think this party will put up with you if it continues to behave as it has for the past two weeks?") Moderator received no answer. Which, for an attentive viewer, is already an answer enough. Together with the smile that Höcke always puts on when it comes to sensitive questions.
Höcke, keyword "framing", brings the idea of referendums very popular with the AfD into play in order to weaken the influence of the parties. Singer corrects here gently but firmly: "Overcoming parliamentarism is a question that, I believe, not everyone sees it as you see it!"
No distancing from the NPD
Höcke also sees the pandemic as over ("Corona is over. And it won't come back either!") And thinks the demonstrations by the "lateral thinkers" are simply great, because these people are only exercising their "basic civil rights".
Höcke does not contest the fact that whoever marches in Berlin this weekend, does so in company and after being asked by organizations that can be clearly assigned to the right-wing camp. Singer asks three times. Three times Höcke lets the offer to distance himself from the NPD pass. That is the "maximum openness" of the street. Singer expressly "takes note" of this.
There follows a short slack in which Höcke can answer various viewer questions about pensions, care and climate change in the usual way without being contradicted - before singer at the end speaks to him about "Landolf Ladig", the pseudonym under which Höcke presumably in NPD -Publications of his friend Thorsten Heise should have published.
Höcke smiles and defends himself against "typical troll questions" and calls them "systematic bullying" before he wants to come back to the "millionfold mass immigration". Singer justifies his question that comparable activities have "now fallen on the feet" of a Mr. Kalbitz.
Why doesn't he, Höcke, just go over to him, Heise, and ask who is behind "Landolf Ladig"? Höcke is smiling all over his face and asks to be asked again next year "if I am back here".
After almost forty minutes the spook is over, the fundamental dilemma remains.
If right-wing extremists are allowed to speak a lot, some of their statements will inevitably go unchallenged. But they do that even more in their dark echo chambers, the traditional channels of the "social" networks. This time, the MDR has achieved what public law can achieve in this context.
And if someone was embarrassed, it wasn't Lars Sänger. Of course, Björn Höcke cannot be "disenchanted" in an interview. Perhaps this is because there is simply no magic surrounding him.
Icon: The mirror
