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Siren on a roof in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania: "It's getting less comfortable"
Photo:
Jens Büttner / dpa
Christoph Unger is President of the Federal Office for Civil Protection and Disaster Relief. This wants to make the population
aware of the
dangers: Together with other authorities, it has declared tomorrow Thursday the first nationwide warning day
since reunification.
To person
Icon: enlargePhoto:
Rolf Vennenbernd / dpa
Christoph Unger
, born in 1958, is an administrative lawyer and has been President of the Federal Office for Civil Protection and Disaster Relief since 2004.
Previously, the former judge from Lower Saxony also dealt with civil defense and disaster situations in the Federal Ministry of the Interior.
He is a member of the SPD.
SPIEGEL:
Mr. Unger, do you have to cover your ears at 11 a.m. on Thursday?
Christoph Unger:
Yes, I have to.
I am then in Mannheim and see how the warning works on the border between Baden-Württemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate.
SPIEGEL:
Why there?
Unger:
This is an exciting metropolitan region for us because it affects two federal states and is densely populated, including by many people who speak little or no German.
At the same time, there is certainly potential for danger from BASF, for example.
We want to take a look: How are warning signals received - and how do they have to be sent out in the event of a hazardous substance cloud so that they are correctly understood.
SPIEGEL:
And that works best with classic sirens?
Unger:
Not at all.
Sirens are stupid.
They can send out certain signals, but whether people still understand them is another question.
Because we have a very unprepared population.
It's not like the Cold War era, when the warning signs were explained on the back of each yellow phone book.
This is another reason why we rely on a mix of warning routes and warning devices.
"We also want to control navigation devices in cars or lanterns."
SPIEGEL:
What does it look like?
Unger:
We serve radio, television and press agencies.
We warn via apps and play on digital billboards in cities.
And we are also looking for new ways: We also want to control navigation devices in cars or lanterns that could glow red in the event of an alarm.
But the mix also includes sirens and loudspeaker trucks.
Society is very heterogeneous, many older people do not have a smartphone.
SPIEGEL:
There are no longer any sirens in Berlin, and there is no other place either.
Will the sirens soon disappear entirely?
Unger:
Well, there are regions where new sirens have even been installed.
In Saxony and Bavaria after the floods in 2002, but also along the Rhine and also in Mannheim.
We are currently working on connecting these sirens in such a way that we can also trigger them centrally.
This is currently only possible on site via the control centers.
It would be better if we could press a button in Bonn and the alarm would go off.
SPIEGEL:
Are you confident that if the worst comes to the worst, you will be able to reach everyone?
Unger:
Not all of them at the moment.
But we are working on it!
The warning system was radically dismantled after the end of the Cold War.
We used to have ten warning offices with 500 employees and around 86,000 sirens in West Germany alone.
These have been left to the municipalities, only a few of them are still in operation.
At the beginning of the noughties we set up a satellite-based warning system, but only radio and television can be reached via this.
After the experiences of the floods in 2002, we received the order to set up a new warning system.
The reconstruction of a nationwide siren system would cost a high three-digit million amount.
This is another reason why we have opted for a more cost-effective variant: NINA - the emergency information and message app.
SPIEGEL: Which
then not only gives a warning signal, but also provides information about it?
Unger:
Exactly.
The smartphone is a pocket siren, which can also be used to give specific recommendations for action, such as evacuation routes in the event of a cloud of hazardous substances.
SPIEGEL:
In other countries, in dangerous situations, you automatically receive a cell phone message if you are in a certain area.
Unger:
Yes, the Netherlands, for example, rely on this cell broadcast system.
We have refrained from doing this because the mobile networks - as you can see on New Year's Eve - are not sufficient in the worst-case scenario.
There is also a data protection problem.
If you control the cell phone directly, movement data is also recorded.
We therefore rely on the app ...
SPIEGEL:
... which only benefits those who have downloaded it.
Unger:
The corona pandemic showed us that this is a good way to go.
Seven million users have already downloaded our app, interest is growing, and the Bundestag has made another three million euros available so that we can reach up to 40 million citizens.
This makes the app a mouthpiece for the federal government.
Together with the other media, we would then have a large reach.
We are currently also working on being able to offer our app in seven languages so that people who do not speak German are better warned.
SPIEGEL:
Why did you introduce your app in the first place?
There is also the KatWarn app developed by Fraunhofer researchers.
Unger:
It was a parallel development and there is still a certain competitive situation in the countries today.
But the warning that we send out centrally is also received via KatWarn.
But in the end we all want to increase the security of the population and protect people.
"Developments in the area of civil protection that are of concern to us"
SPIEGEL:
And what about protection against cyber attacks?
The sirens should be more robust.
Unger:
It's not that simple, today's sirens are also digital high-tech machines.
Again: we need the mix, even if one or the other component fails.
In the event of a power failure, for example, you could no longer rely on the radio and television.
SPIEGEL:
And why are you holding Warning Day now?
Do we have to prepare for more disasters and dangerous situations?
Unger:
There are developments in the area of disaster control that concern us.
It becomes more uncomfortable if you take, for example, the issue of the consequences of climate change.
There are more and more heavy rain events in which small streams suddenly turn into torrential rivers and cause great damage - as in Simbach am Inn 2016. Terrorism also occurred more frequently.
We therefore need a good warning and information system that people are also familiar with.
This is the only way they can deal with such a situation and help themselves to a certain extent.
SPIEGEL:
What are you hoping for the day?
Unger:
We want people to deal with the topic, also in schools, kindergartens or at work.
We will evaluate how the warning technically worked together with the federal states in October.
SPIEGEL:
What do you do if an actual catastrophe occurs at the same time on Thursday?
Unger:
That is very unlikely, but of course the warning at 11 a.m. will be clearly recognizable as a test alarm.
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