Book show Top title: Margret Atwood on "Die Vüchsin"

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Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Welcome to "Spitzentitel", the book show on SPIEGEL.de.

My name is Volker Weidermann and her name is Margaret Atwood.

Very welcome.

Hello!

Margaret Atwood

Good day!

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Good afternoon, Mrs. Atwood.

I am very happy that you are here.

In one of her poems I read the sentence: "Art is useless."

Is that something you believe in?

Or what use does art have for you?

Margaret Atwood

I think it was Oscar Wilde who said, "All art is utterly useless."

I believe there is an unpredictable benefit to art.

But when you're talking about art that was made for a specific purpose, maybe we're talking more about propaganda.

And there is definitely a use for propaganda.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Fortunately, or rather, unfortunately, you saw parts of your work of "The Handmaid's Tale" go from fiction to truth.

When Donald Trump was inaugurated, people held up signs that read, "Make Atwood fiction again."

Did you ever think that your ideas or parts of them could come true so quickly?

Margaret Atwood

In the eighties, yes.

In the nineties, no.

In the decade of the 21st century, yes.

It's a curve.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Why are the nineties an exception here?

Margaret Atwood

There was a very important event in 1989: the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I was there at the start of the film "The Handmaid's Tale" and we showed it in West Berlin.

And everyone talked about the equipment, the acting and all the artistic aspects.

And then we showed the film in East Berlin, and the audience's reaction was completely different.

They said, "That was our life."

By that they meant that you couldn't trust anyone because you didn't know who was going to denounce you.

This aspect was very important to people.

And then in the nineties everyone said: history has become obsolete.

Capitalism won.

Let's go shopping.

So we went shopping for ten years.

Then came September 11th and the course of history changed again.

Then came the financial crisis in 2008. And when people are scared and feel insecure, that is the breeding ground for a dictatorship.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Does the world and politics affect the way you write?

Margaret Atwood

Not so much how I write, but what I write.

Because what you write always changes in relation to reality.

Because of this change of direction, I revised "The Handmaid's Tale" and wrote "The Testaments".

Because we no longer moved away from the scenarios in "The Handmaid's Tale", but rather towards it.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

That is a very difficult question: but where or how do you find the images for the visions of the future that you describe?

Does it come from inside you, or does it even come from the past?

Margaret Atwood

How do I find the things that I write?

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Yes, so the pictures and visions.

Most of them are about dystopias.

And those are predictions of the future.

But maybe some of these come from the past.

Margaret Atwood

It is always the case.

You can't really write about the future.

There are several possible versions of the future.

And which one will happen depends on what we do today.

I haven't used anything in "The Handmaid's Tale" that hasn't happened before, somewhere in the world.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

You started writing "The Handmaid's Tale" in 1984.

Was that also due to your experience when you were visiting East Germany, i.e. the other side of the Wall?

Margaret Atwood

Absolutely.

Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland.

These countries were very different.

Poland was already falling apart.

East Germany was ruled with a hard hand, and Czechoslovakia was somewhere in the middle.

And yes, I had very interesting conversations with the local people.

Mostly somewhere outdoors.

Never in an apartment or a car.

So yeah, that influenced me.

By the way, I was writing on a German typewriter back then.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Was that your only visit?

Have you ever been to Eastern Europe again after the nineties?

Margaret Atwood

Yes, definitely, often.

I was in Poland again in 1989 and since then I've been to Europe more often, especially in Germany.

There are a lot of festivals these days.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

For the first time - surprisingly - we get to know you as a poet, as someone who writes poetry: "We have to be the only ones left in the haze that was gathering everywhere, including these woods."

So the German edition somehow begins with the end of the world.

Does the English edition also start like this?

Margaret Atwood

No.

This poem is from the first book I finished in the mid-1960s.

And because of that, it's not the first poem in the book, but it's there.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

What is it about the apocalypse that appeals to you so much - and that has obviously been so since the beginning of your work?

Margaret Atwood

You know, as a teenager you read a lot of science fiction.

There was "Brave New World" and "1984".

There was Ray Bradbury ("Fahrenheit 451") and other works at the time, and there were quite a few doomsday.

I've just written an introduction to a 1923 Russian dystopia.

The work is called "We" by Evgenij Zamyatin.

Perhaps he was the pioneer of these types of books.

He predicted Stalin before Stalin came to power.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

When we talk about the impact that the scenarios you draw and your books have, and people holding up signs that read, "Make Atwood fiction again," I wonder if you ever will have thought about changing the world with your work or trying to move it in a different direction.

Margaret Atwood

Not while writing.

But when I wrote "The Handmaid's Tale" I thought people might find this crazy, and now we're here in 2020. And now things have changed.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

You are known worldwide and a public figure.

In one of your poems, which is called: "Their attitudes differ" ("Different attitudes"), you write: "Little by little you will become known, and in a year there will be nothing left of you, except a megaphone."

Do you sometimes bother to be so famous and become a megaphone, at least in the public part of your life?

Margaret Atwood

It is worse.

They make a stamp of you.

As young writers we sat together and thought about what would become of us: maybe a statue, or they would name a bar after us, or maybe a tea shop.

I liked the tea shop best.

But obviously that's not the case.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Super.

And are you on the right track?

Margaret Atwood

Yes I am.

And hey, I'm still alive.

If you are still alive then you are well on your way.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

How well do you actually speak German?

You have been to Germany often and learned a little bit.

Do you sometimes read German texts?

Did you have contact with native speakers? Your book was published by several contemporary German poets?

Or were you asked questions during the translation phase?   

Margaret Atwood

I'm not sure, but yes, I often get questions about translations.

I can read German better.

Reading is easy.

It is difficult to speak.

I can understand simple sentences, but when it gets too philosophical I need a dictionary.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Have you ever tried to read poetry in German?

Margaret Atwood

Yes, but mostly in a bilingual version.

So that I can cheat.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

But I heard that your daughter speaks German very well because she studied art history?

Margaret Atwood

Yes, your German is very good.

You need German for art history.

Art history was invented in Germany, and for that you have to be able to read German.

I think she lived there for a total of three or four years.

She lived in East Berlin after the fall of the Berlin Wall

when it was still cheap.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

The word "atwoodian" was invented for you and your style.

What exactly does that mean, and what would you wish for if you could choose a meaning?

Margaret Atwood

I don't know what it means.

But a long time ago people in Germany asked me: "Is it funny or not funny?"

And I would say it is both.

That's

what the French call Anglo-Saxon humor.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

You are often on Twitter and obviously like this medium.

How or what do you use Twitter for?

Margaret Atwood

I see it like a little radio show.

I can invite guests.

I can talk about books I've read and announce events.

Sometimes people get into "screaming wars" on Twitter.

But Twitter is not a good place to scold yourself as there are very few nuances and no lengthy explanations.

Twitter can be frustrating, especially for German users, as German sentences can be quite long and the verb always appears at the end.

In order to express your point of view on Twitter, it is better not to use German.

Or rather a condensed version of German.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Have you ever retweeted a tweet from Donald Trump?

Margaret Atwood

No never.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

How high are your hopes for the US election in November?

Margaret Atwood

Hopes?

I'm not talking about hopes, but more about possibilities.

Mainly because of the things he (Donald Trump - editor's note) are saying about the postal vote, and when he talks about not accepting the result of the election.

Trump is a show guy who tries to capitalize on excitement of all kinds.

Just imagine what will happen if he just doesn't accept the election result.

Where are we going?

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Dreadful.

Are you sometimes annoyed to hear what you are supposedly responsible for?

I just read on Twitter that you are being held responsible for what went on in the Supreme Court of the United States?

That's a lot for which you are seen to be responsible here, don't you think?

Margaret Atwood

No, I'm not responsible for any of that. Just because I've brought up these things doesn't mean I'm responsible for them.

I did not initiate any of this.

I just comment.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

This is true.

I heard that you were seven years old when you started writing.

And you wrote about a little ant, but found it boring ...

Margaret Atwood

You know, there are three stages in an ant's life: first the egg, then it becomes a larva, and then it becomes a pupa.

Nothing happens, nothing before she gets her legs.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

But you haven't finished the ant novel?

Margaret Atwood

Oh but!

I finished the first ant story, but I started a second ant novel and I didn't finish it.

Then I first became a painter.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Margaret Atwood, thank you for your time, and thank you for your books.

I look forward to seeing you in Frankfurt in 2021.

Margaret Atwood

I'm looking forward to that too.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Nice.

Thanks and all the best.

Margaret Atwood

See you next.

Volker Weidermann, DER SPIEGEL

Until next year.

Goodbye.

That was Margaret Atwood in "Top Title" on SPIEGEL.de.

See you again soon, maybe tomorrow.

Until then, do well and cheer up.