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Participant in the "Querdenker" demo in Karlsruhe
Photo: Uli Deck / dpa
A man and a woman stand on the fringes of the demonstration and are discussing heatedly, with a red and white flutter tape between them.
She says that she only ever hears Drosten and Lauterbach in the media.
Jörg Rupp, 54 years old, holds against it.
The Antifa logo is emblazoned on his mouth and nose protector, and on his T-shirt it says: "Braun - Schweig!"
He says: "Whoever demonstrates with Nazis is one himself."
A third man, blond braid, "lateral thinker" listens.
Then he says, almost casually, that he is against violence.
"But we can't achieve anything without violence."
Germany remains in a state of emergency.
The intensive care units are filling up, the number of infections is stagnating at a high level.
At the same time, the group of those who deny the danger of the coronavirus seems to be gradually radicalizing.
20,000 "lateral thinkers" demonstrated in Leipzig last Saturday, right-wing hooligans paved their way through the city center.
How does the movement behave on the weekend after?
After the nationwide mobilization, the "lateral thinkers" have spread out again.
On Sunday they will demonstrate Düsseldorf, on this Saturday afternoon they will demonstrate in Frankfurt am Main, at the same time around 1000 people will gather in a particularly symbolic place: Karlsruhe.
Two weeks ago, the corona deniers demonstrated on Schlossplatz, just a few hundred meters from the Federal Constitutional Court.
Because it is too tight there, the public order office and the organizers agreed this time on the measuring site, a huge asphalt area outside the city center, where public festivals usually take place.
Almost no one wears mouth and nose protection here, because the administrative court had overturned the mask requirement before the recent demo.
Instead, the participants must adhere to the rules of distance.
Two acquaintances greet each other with a handshake and hug each other.
“Keep your distance!” Shouts a demonstrator.
She is sitting on one of the neon-colored dots that the organizers sprayed on the asphalt.
Markus Haintz comes on stage, a lawyer from Ulm.
He speaks of the civil disobedience it needs now, referring to Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
In his view, rallies like this are not a permanent solution.
"In a green field or in a large parking lot, people don't care what we do."
Leipzig on the other hand, it was "a nice, legal spontaneous demo".
"I thought it was great how it went in Leipzig."
How he feels with right-wing extremist protesters, he does not say.
A student compares herself to Anne Frank
A man uses his safety vest to advertise peace, justice and human dignity.
A woman spreads the newspaper "Democratic Resistance" with an Anonymous mask on the back of her head and white angel wings on her back.
Another walks through the rows with a wide-meshed net mask and advertises on a cardboard sign a bus trip to Berlin, where the "lateral thinkers" want to demonstrate next Wednesday.
On the stage, Dr.
Walter Weber from the "Doctors for Enlightenment" of threatened forced vaccinations, enforced by the police.
One conspiracy theorist speaks of "pedosadist subjects in government" responsible for child abuse.
A schoolgirl, around twelve years old, talks about her children's birthday, which she had to celebrate in secret - and compares herself with Anne Frank, who hid from the Nazis in the Secret Annex.
The police are on site with more than 100 officers.
After Leipzig, and after the last Karlsruhe demo was about to be dissolved because of the many violations, the line-up was more than doubled, says a spokesman.
He estimates the number of those who have gathered at the edge of the measuring site to counter demo at 130 to 150. They try to drown out the speeches of the "lateral thinkers" with sirens, a rap song by the Berlin band KAFVKA booms out of the speakers: "Fick your arguments are not. Lies do not become facts just because you write them down. "
Then an activist begins to address the corona deniers: "We are here because you are unable to distance yourself from anti-Semites and from Nazis," he says.
Behind the barricade, a "lateral thinker" yells at him: "Nazis rough!"
She doesn't want to answer questions from SPIEGEL, "because it's going to be twisted anyway," she says.
"That's the last thing that gets smeared around with you."
"We used to be on the same page"
Antifascist Jörg Rupp has now found a new discussion partner: Christina, white curly hair, 72, she does not want to reveal her last name.
The two know each other because they are both politically active.
Christina takes the flutter tape in her hand, lifts it slightly, says: "We used to be on the same side."
They haven't been for half a year.
Christina was also there last weekend in Leipzig.
She doesn't wear a mask.
A button from "Grandmas against the right" sticks to her shoulder bag.
She is a well-known left, she says, has been involved for many years, "always on the side of democracy and peace".
Jörg Rupp, 54, is a member of the Left, previously he was on the state executive of the Greens.
He points to the demonstrators from the "Kandel Women's Alliance", who are a few meters further below the corona deniers.
He says it was because of such people that the "grandmas against the right" were founded after all.
"Did you tell them to piss off?"
Christina says she can't forbid anyone to be here at the demo.
95 percent of the people are here because they are critical of the government's measures.
"And you kick the 95 percent in the bin."
Both seem resigned.
Unfortunately, their conversation does not get beyond this level, complains Christina.
"I'm sorry," says Rupp.
And she says, "Yes, me too."
Then she says goodbye.
You now have a look at the right.
"So that I know what you are talking about."
Icon: The mirror