They have been friends for a few years.
And that's why Michael Tsokos, forensic doctor, knows that his buddy Jan Josef Liefers, forensic doctor in Münster's “Tatort”, can endure: taking part in the autopsy of two bodies in front of running cameras.
Starting today, TV Now is showing “Obduktion”, a 90-minute documentary in which Tsokos solves the mystery of two real deaths step by step.
We spoke to the star medic beforehand.
Jan Josef Liefers takes on the role of mediator between the experts and the audience
The focus of the documentation is the question: Was it an accident, a suicide or a homicide?
Don't worry: it won't be too bloody
According to the announcement, you wanted to create a “respectful” insight into the world of forensic medicine. How respectful can it be to cut open and examine people on television?
Michael Tsokos:
That was of course a real challenge, to implement it in such a way that it is scientifically sound, that it is demanding in terms of the images - but that people don't switch off after three minutes.
I think we managed that well.
As a viewer you can see that I'm working, but you don't always see what I'm doing.
I explain every step to Jan Josef Liefers and he asks questions about the processes.
That means we don't see open bodies, genitals, or faces of corpses.
Can you see how you cut into the meat?
Michael Tsokos:
Yes, you can see that.
But no wide-open gaping bodies or other images that some people have of forensic medicine.
We start with the external examination of the corpses, then follow the X-ray display and again and again we sprinkle in excursions to known cases, to questions that Jan formulates as a bridge for the audience - and of course organs are also shown, but never in such a way that one says: That you can't send.
During the shoot, did you think that it had to be entertaining for the audience?
Michael Tsokos:
Yes, from my lectures to medical students I know that it shouldn't be too hard all the time, because otherwise people will drop out.
You have to keep the tension, but never at the expense of the deceased.
You have to keep giving people air to breathe.
Our show is of course not funny, but it is certainly exciting all the time and not depressing or scary.
And certainly a challenge for the director - repeating scenes is bad here ...
Michael Tsokos:
That was what actually bothered me the most before: We can only do everything once - and not, as with the feature film, say: again!
And what you say while editing and examining has to be right too.
For me it was the highest work of concentration, on the one hand making the right cuts and at the same time trusting that the cameramen captured it well, being careful to say the right thing and not messing up - I was happy when it was mastered.
Now, of course, what interests you as a viewer is: How realistic is the "crime scene" - is it really the case that the inspectors are constantly standing with you in the dissecting room when there is a homicide?
Michael Tsokos:
That's right.
If it is a homicide offense, the homicide squad is always there from the start, as well as a public prosecutor.
And then, like Jan Josef Liefers in “Tatort”, you are the one who says to the inspectors: Well, take a closer look there?
Michael Tsokos:
No, no, they already know exactly what they're doing, the routine homicide officers.
But of course they are grateful for our tips: What kind of murder weapon should you look for?
What did the autopsy reveal?
Was the murder weapon a knife, an ax, a screwdriver, a samurai sword or a baseball bat?
These are the things that we find out and what they direct their investigations towards.
Are there also cases in which you say: we have to give up, the body is not telling us the truth about the way of death?
Michael Tsokos:
Sure, here in Berlin we carry out 2,300 autopsies a year, more than anywhere else in Germany - most of the cases are corpses that have been severely rotten.
The public prosecutor's office is not interested in whether it was cancer or a heart attack - it is really all about excluding external violence.
We can do that.
Is there then also the perfect crime that they cannot see?
Michael Tsokos:
Well, I cannot present that to you here, dear Ms. Kraft.
(Laughs)
That would be like giving you instructions on how to open Pandora's box.
But is there the perfect crime?
Michael Tsokos:
What I can tell you is that it is not what is always suggested on television: that there are only incredibly intelligent murderers and serial killers who come up with the most sophisticated plans - in reality, most of the acts are more like 08 / 15th
The most common homicides are stabbing with knives or killing, which is not difficult for us to prove.
Conversely, does that mean that most violent crimes are not planned at all, but rather happen with affect?
Michael Tsokos:
I would say that.
Then we get cases like a dead person who was stabbed to death in the Aldi parking lot in an argument about a parking space ...
Are you still shocked? Or are you already completely numb?
Michael Tsokos:
Totally jaded.
(Laughs.)
No, I can separate the professional and the private very well.
If you had the ballast constantly present in your head, which we also see here in killed children, in domestic violence, in women who were killed by their stalker, you would be mentally damaged.
I can work through this very professionally, that is, I am completely objective and emotionless, even if it is a killed child.
I know of course that a family will probably break up because of it - but I won't let it get to me in such a way that I can no longer concentrate properly.
And forensic doctors, I see that in my colleagues, are very positive people.
When you deal with death so much, you have a different view of life - namely, the joys and what life can bring you.
You haven't become more anxious either? Because you see every day what dangers lurk everywhere ...
Michael Tsokos:
Well not afraid, but when my children were small, I was happy when they all could swim.
Because I keep having these tragic things where a child runs into the neighbour's garden and 20 minutes later it is found drowned in the pool.
Or where a window is not secured, the mother thinks, the child is asleep, she only goes shopping for a moment - and the three-year-old climbs on the window sill and flies down ... You may develop a greater degree of caution.
But it's not that I'm more or less afraid than other parents who send their child to get bread and rolls for the first time when they are seven.
You have to let them grow up and trust them.
And how did Mr. Liefers fare?
Michael Tsokos:
We stood there for over eight hours, we shot it in one go.
And Jan Josef Liefers did very well.
But I had no doubt about that either.
We are good friends and I know that he is incredibly interested in science.
He's already been to my autopsy twice out of interest and in preparation for the role in “Tatort” - that's why I knew he could take it.
And I also knew that he was asking exactly the right questions.
He did a fantastic job.
And now, specifically, asked: How disgusting is it for the viewer?
Michael Tsokos:
Not disgusting at all.
It will surely be something for many people that they have never seen before.
But it will also clear up many misconceptions about forensic medicine.
And I think the viewer will find that forensic medicine is the backbone of democracy.
Because without them you will not get any legal security in a state, because every death that ends up in our country is meticulously investigated.
What errors are there about forensic medicine that you are struggling with?
Michael Tsokos:
For example, that we work alone in a quiet little room.
Forensic doctors are usually young, very fun-loving women who always work together in a large team.
We are at least three autos at the table because the four-eyes principle is laid down.
To illustrate this to people, I am now opening our doors to television.
It was never about being voyeuristic, but about scientific documentation.
In the interests of clarification.
You can see the documentation here
