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Pupils in a senior year in Lower Saxony
Photo: Hauke-Christian Dittrich / dpa
SPIEGEL:
Ms. Ernst, on Monday the Standing Conference (KMK) decided on a three-stage plan to return to face-to-face teaching, and on Tuesday, Chancellor Angela Merkel and the Prime Ministers agreed on schools to be closed by the end of January.
On Wednesday, the Minister of Education in Baden-Württemberg announced the start of face-to-face teaching for January 18, while in Saxony it will not continue until February 8.
Is the KMK currently dismantling itself?
Ernst:
In fact, the KMK is very united - we know how important this unity is right now.
That also shaped the meeting last week, in which we discussed very unanimously and made a unanimous decision.
In this respect, I do not share your assessment.
SPIEGEL:
But isn't this decision quite toothless because there are no concrete incidence values from which the measures, such as the suspension of classroom teaching, should take effect?
They also do not follow the recommendations of the Robert Koch Institute (RKI), which says: From an incidence of 50, study groups should be reduced.
Ernst:
During the entire lockdown, the KMK resisted tying school closings to certain incidences.
We had situations with local hotspots in old people's and nursing homes, in hospitals and slaughterhouses.
They had nothing to do with schools.
That is why we have always emphasized that no automatism should lead from an incidence to a school closure.
We all agree on that.
SPIEGEL:
And the RKI recommendations?
Ernst:
Even with the best technology, face-to-face teaching cannot be replaced by distance and change formats.
When we close schools, we lose students who do not work independently and who have no parents' support.
That is why we came to other decisions than the RKI in weighing up - unanimously.
"As long as we can, we'll stick to the normal framework."
KMK President Britta Ernst
SPIEGEL:
From the outside, that looks more like contradictions.
Her ministerial colleague in Bremen asks parents to send their children to schools, she takes responsibility for it.
The Minister of Education in Schleswig-Holstein, on the other hand, asks children shortly before Christmas not to go to schools even though they were still open.
Ernst:
If you take a closer look, we are all within the framework of the KMK decisions.
That was also the case last year.
We clearly agreed that the Abitur would be carried out.
And despite the closed schools, we successfully organized this and helped the students to obtain a well-deserved degree.
Differences between countries are mostly due to the current number of infections or different vacation times, but also in the school system.
Sometimes primary school goes to fourth grade, sometimes to sixth.
Of course, this leads to different strategies - anything else would also be wrong.
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Britta Ernst
Photo: Soeren Stache / dpa
SPIEGEL:
At least when it comes to school-leaving qualifications, there shouldn't be any compromises in terms of unity.
Nevertheless, some countries are single-handedly announcing that they will be canceling the final written exams for the secondary school leaving certificate after ten school years.
Why is there no joint decision?
Ernst:
You have to take a closer look: The intermediate degree is by no means as standardized as the Abitur.
There are countries that have no examination at all for the secondary school leaving certificate, others have one.
And, of course, they are free to decide under these framework conditions whether and how to test.
The starting position for the secondary school leaving certificate is simply too heterogeneous.
SPIEGEL:
Does that mean, conversely, that the final exams in 2021 will not be canceled at all for the Abitur, where there are uniform standards?
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Ernst:
We will advise you.
The aim is for us to work closely together, as we did last year.
The problem is that now, in mid-January, we don't know exactly what situation the students will actually be in in the exams.
We are currently doing everything we can to maintain good framework conditions for the graduating classes.
These students are the first to come back to face-to-face classes, and there is agreement on this.
And, just like last year, we will find a uniform framework for the Abitur.
We have not yet finalized the deliberations on this.
SPIEGEL:
Student representatives are stunned.
The exams are due in a few months - and there is no clarity whatsoever about what they will look like.
Ernst:
That is really a difficult situation for the students.
But our line is clear: as long as we can, we'll stick to the normal framework.
That is our maxim.
Not knowing what it will look like in a few weeks - unfortunately we have to live with that, difficult as it may be.
But you can be sure that we will prepare for all eventualities - even if we try to stick to Plan A first.
SPIEGEL:
But is there a plan B?
Ernst:
There is no final plan B yet, but work is being done on it.
SPIEGEL:
And until when does it exist?
When is the last possible time to be decided: do we cancel the exams?
Ernst:
That is also being discussed.
It's not our aim to cancel the exams.
We want the students to be able to graduate and not have any disadvantages when they apply to the universities.
"I know that the parents have had very difficult weeks behind and ahead of them."
KMK President Britta Ernst
SPIEGEL:
One can get the impression that you are clinging to a normality that will no longer exist.
Does the KMK look too little at the lessons of the future and too much back to the time before the school closings?
Ernst:
Of course we would like to return to normality in the sense of face-to-face teaching.
The pandemic has shown that this is the best form of teaching and that this is the only way to ensure that all students are actually reached.
But we have also learned that a lot has to change with digitization.
SPIEGEL:
What specifically?
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Ernst:
Nobody denies that the technical equipment in schools at the beginning of the pandemic was not what we would like a modern education system to be.
We're catching up, especially thanks to the digital pact - even if it still falters here and there.
But the pandemic has had an accelerating effect: Schoolchildren, especially the older ones, have learned to work more independently.
The teachers taught each other an incredible amount and gained experience with distance learning.
Since we have all become smarter together and will go into a new normal with new face-to-face classes after Corona.
I am sure that there will have been a leap forward in terms of the competencies of teachers and students.
SPIEGEL: It
currently looks different: The digital devices for teachers and the announced flat rate education for schoolchildren are still a long time coming because there is still no federal-state agreement.
Why is it so slow?
Ernst:
First of all, I think it's very good that the federal government has taken another look at where it can help financially during the crisis.
The end devices for the students are on their way.
The notices are all out.
Nevertheless, it sometimes takes several weeks for these devices to be delivered.
We have to rework the internet education tariff.
My stand is that it exists, that it is offered to the school authorities and that it should be implemented there.
But you can also see why things don't go so quickly: We always have to consider this interface between internal and external school administration.
So: The school authorities are responsible for the equipment and, in our opinion, also for the end devices of the teachers.
The ministries of education and the education administration are responsible for teaching and staffing.
And this interface sometimes causes problems for us in Germany.
"There is no final Plan B yet, but work is underway."
KMK President Britta Ernst
SPIEGEL:
Then, as Federal Education Minister Anja Karliczek (CDU) suggested in SPIEGEL, we could tackle a new federalism reform.
Karliczek had proposed 2024 as the date for this.
Ernst:
Education policy is a matter for the federal states, and that's a good thing.
But it's true, this interface needs to be considered.
And it must not only be considered between the federal government and the federal states, but also between the federal states and the municipalities as school bodies.
There we have to come to structurally different cooperation relationships.
Financial aid from the federal government is very important and also welcome - but that too must be resolved differently in the long term.
Because if it is only a one-time support, then not all problems are solved immediately.
The question is: Who finances the end devices for the teachers on a long-term basis - and who maintains them?
SPIEGEL:
And?
Do you already have an answer?
Ernst:
We need binding partnerships and agreements.
Not just for the moment, but in the long term.
SPIEGEL:
What else is on your agenda as KMK president?
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Ernst:
I hope that this year we will not only deal with corona management.
There are plenty of other and important issues: the permanent scientific commission that is starting its work;
the question of good teaching in times of digital transformation.
We must not lose sight of the fact that education policy is essentially about good teaching that does justice to all students and that promotes them individually.
And I would like us not only to talk about equipment issues, but also about how excellent, good teaching can be better designed with digital media.
SPIEGEL:
How do you answer parents who want to know how school will go next week or next month?
Who cannot or do not want to look so far ahead?
Ernst:
I know that the parents have had very difficult weeks behind and ahead of them.
We are doing a lot to mitigate this, but there is no one for whom the pandemic has no consequences.
That is not the bad will of education policy, but a national emergency that we find ourselves in.
We have to deal with that.
We keep an eye on the educational pathways of the children, but also the care worries of the parents through to the wage replacement benefits.
Only: Unfortunately, it is not possible at the moment without restrictions.
SPIEGEL:
That doesn't sound very encouraging.
Ernst:
Maybe it helps to take a look at the quality of our education system.
Many teachers had to completely rethink and learn - and did it very well.
Despite the technical framework, which wasn't perfect everywhere.
And for that, I think, we all did well.
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