Craig Holiday Haynes: "Charlie From Now On The Definition Of Cool"

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"Charlie was the definition of cool": Craig Holiday Haynes

Photo: Michael Putland / Getty Images

SPIEGEL:

You were friends with Mr. Haynes and Charlie Watts.

How did you first hear about him?

Haynes:

To be honest, Charlie Watts was my first idol.

I was nine years old in 1964 and admired him from the moment I saw him play with the Rolling Stones.

That was before I even started playing drums myself.

SPIEGEL:

Early maturity, right?

Most kids at the time liked the Beatles first.

Haynes:

That also applies to me, but the Stones always had the better groove.

They were closer to rhythm 'n' blues than to Beatles pop, where everything sounded well-composed and commercial.

The Rolling Stones were always raw and natural.

But most of all I liked Charlie, because he was a jazz drummer who had ended up behind the drums of a rock band.

I didn't know, but I felt it.

He played cooler than Ringo.

Just like my father, he always wore the finest suits and looked super elegant.

The rest of the Stones wore brightly colored clothes.

Only Charlie dressed conservatively.

I liked that.

In my eyes, Charlie was cooler than any other rock 'n' roller.

SPIEGEL:

Did you follow his publications?

Haynes:

I've never lost sight of him.

A few years after I started playing drums myself, he was on the cover of Modern Drummer magazine.

That impressed me, because my father had also been on the cover three times over the years.

I bought the copy and started reading the interview.

When asked which drummers were his role models, he replied: Art Blakey and Roy Haynes.

My father!

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SPIEGEL:

When did you get to know Charlie Watts personally?

Haynes:

2001 at the Blue Note in Greenwich Village when he performed there with his Tentet. I attended the concert with Lisa Fischer, who sang as a background singer with the Rolling Stones and Luther Vandross for many years. And when we were standing at the bar and talking, Charlie came up to us and pointed a finger at me, but looked at her and said, "Craig has never been to one of our concerts!" He wanted to know everything about Sun Ra and that Arkestra. I remember how he asked me detailed questions about our saxophonist John Gilmore, who also played with Art Blakey. It wasn't until 2012 before I got another opportunity to see Charlie. On the occasion of the New York premiere of her film "Crossfire Hurricane" he invited my father to the film screening and to the after-show party. The party was amazing.

SPIEGEL:

Why?

Haynes:

There were so many people you knew from television.

The party was at The Standard Hotel, and I saw Steve Buscemi, Elvis Costello, and many others in the crowd.

And of course Keith, Mick and Ron.

But Charlie wasn't there.

That's when I remembered how he had told me at Blue Note that he was never interested in the rock 'n' roll lifestyle.

He never shows up at parties, and after shows he always goes straight home to his wife.

SPIEGEL:

Have you ever been able to experience the Stones?

Haynes:

In August 2019, Charlie invited me to MetLife Stadium in New Jersey - I was supposed to come in the early afternoon and watch the soundcheck.

Again he took all the time in the world to talk to us.

SPIEGEL:

What was he like?

Haynes:

Humorous, distinguished, modest.

I was surprised how well he knew about the other drummers in the US.

He knew everything about my career, and he followed the whole jazz scene in general.

Whatever name I gave him - Steve Gadd, Earl Palmer, Jim Keltner - he knew all about it.

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SPIEGEL:

What made Charlie Watts' special drum style?

Haynes:

He kept the sound of the Rolling Stones together with his minimalist game. Its groove has never been overtly complex, but its additions and omissions are exceptional. I am absolutely convinced that a good drummer is always a representation of one's inner life, one's own character. Your personality is ideally expressed in your game. In that sense, Charlie Watts' game was as humorous, distinguished and humble as he was. He was also a very relaxed person, so was his game. He doesn't speak much, he's a man of few words. But what he says is thoughtful and full of self-irony. If you listen to his playing on headphones, you will find that his additions and omissions are always well placed and pointed.

SPIEGEL:

What were the axes within the band?

Haynes:

Charlie listened to Keith Richards as the drummer, and Bill Wyman or Darryl Jones listened to Charlie as bassist.

Everyone else could lie down in this made-up bed and shine.

Keith provided the rhythm, the chords, the harmonies, the structure, the groove.

In that sense, Keith Richards was the foundation of the band - and Charlie was the glue that held it all together.

Charlie once said to me that he could never have been a studio drummer.

He firmly believed that there was a band sound, a kind of family sound - and session musicians can't emulate that.

Something like this only comes about through years of interaction.

SPIEGEL:

Was there anything about Charlie Watts that irritated you?

Haynes:

Actually just that I was positively surprised at how little he was a rock 'n' roller as a person - and how much a jazz musician.