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Taliban in Kabul: "more moderate, more diplomatic, sometimes even opportunistic"
Photo: STRINGER / REUTERS
SPIEGEL
: Mr. Khorchide, religion is always an instrument of power in Afghanistan.
Are the Taliban themselves as strict as they are demanding of the population?
Khorchide
: You represent a radical interpretation of Islam that the majority of Muslims do not agree with.
But the Taliban identify with Islam, so you can't simply deny them their belief.
SPIEGEL
: So you don't use faith primarily to maintain power?
Khorchide:
Yes.
However, the Taliban make no distinction between political rule and religion.
For them, Sharia, God's law, is the only legitimate social order, democracy and human rights have no place here.
At the moment, however, the Scholars' Council is trying, in consultation with the political actors, to interpret the Sharia in a more moderate way so that it meets the political requirements of the new Taliban rulers.
They act differently than their predecessors, who established the »Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan« in the 1990s.
SPIEGEL
: What is the difference between the new ruling class and the old one?
Khorchide
: The new Taliban are more moderate, more diplomatic.
They have learned new things politically, have become more pragmatic and in some cases even opportunistic - because they know that they depend on support from abroad.
They need economic stability to consolidate their power.
For this they need the recognition of the world community and financial help.
In the 1990s, the Taliban used violence to achieve their goals.
They are now ostensibly distancing themselves from that, they are even sitting at a table with representatives of the US government.
Negotiating with "unbelievers" - that would have been impossible in the past.
SPIEGEL
: The Koran is used to legitimize such negotiations.
Khorchide
: And the Taliban's reading is selective.
The Koran is an ambivalent book.
It does not contain any uniform statements about the relationship to non-Muslims, for example.
Because the Taliban refuse to classify the scriptures historically, they take the Koran literally, but selectively.
That means everyone looks for the place that underpins their concern.
Whether war or peace with non-Muslims - an ahistorical reading of the Koran provides legitimation for both.
SPIEGEL
: The “Islamic State” in Afghanistan immediately declared the Taliban to be traitors because of their contacts with the arch enemy USA.
Khorchide
: The Taliban have two security problems today: on the one hand, the »Islamic State«, on the other hand, the hardliners in their own ranks.
Not all Taliban support the new negotiating strategy; splinter groups emerge, which in turn could carry out attacks on former companions.
The Taliban are not a homogeneous group, nor are they an orderly army.
But they have been trained to wage war for decades.
There will continue to be clashes and attacks in the fight against internal and external enemies.
SPIEGEL
: The withdrawal of Western troops from Afghanistan was marked by a lack of agreements, chaos and mismanagement.
The West has also failed in building democratic structures.
Why?
Khorchide
: The US and its allies did not reform Afghan society from below.
They put billions in the military instead of investing more money in education, schools, teacher training and the establishment of democratic institutions.
To convey knowledge and basic democratic values to people who live even in the most remote corners would have achieved so much more than any weapon.
SPIEGEL
: Isn't the goal of establishing a nation-state with a democratic central government generally doomed to failure in countries like Afghanistan, where a clan principle rules in many places?
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Khorchide
: It is complicated to transfer democratic systems to tribal societies, where loyalty is to the clan and its customs.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't instill democratic values.
To do this, we have to learn to take into account the cultural language and peculiarities of the local people.
Tribal identities should be brought into harmony with democratic values and belief in a plural society.
The ultimate goal must be democracy.
SPIEGEL
: But democracy and Sharia law are mutually exclusive.
Khorchide:
It's a question of interpretation.
My thesis is that social structures must first change before a liberal understanding of Islam can be established.
Only when people see themselves as an autonomous being, as a subject and no longer as an externally determined object, do they begin to question authorities and think democratically.
And then you can say no to restrictive interpretations of Islam.
SPIEGEL
: Even in Germany, liberal Islam has difficulties in asserting itself.
Who is braking?
Khorchide
: Many of the representatives of the Muslims in Germany, some of whom are official contacts for the state, reject a liberal interpretation of Islam. However, it is these religious communities that strongly determine the religious discourse; they decide who will be the religion teacher in schools and what content will be taught. Imams are still preaching in most mosques who have been trained either abroad or far from the realities of the people here. The liberal Muslims have hardly any structures in Germany because they hardly have the necessary financial resources. It's a dilemma.
SPIEGEL
: The general accusation made by the conservatives against the liberal Muslims is that they are controlled by the West and therefore not credible.
You, too, have been vilified and insulted as a heretic.
Khorchide
: Such conspiracy theories are only put forward so as not to face the factual debate.
The hate reports that I get from supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, for example, or the death threats from the Salafist camp, because of which I appear publicly under police protection, do not really relate to arguments in terms of content, they are personal defamation.
The authors are afraid of losing their authority to interpret Islam.
This is about power.
SPIEGEL
: Should the West negotiate with the Taliban?
Khorchide
: The Taliban are a reality that we have to deal with today.
The local population suffers when negotiations are suspended.
We can't let them down.
SPIEGEL
: What do women in Afghanistan have to expect now?
Khorchide
: Women will have fewer rights and freedoms than they did before the takeover, but more than they did under the Taliban in the 1990s.
It is the women and the free spirits in Afghanistan who now have to fight for change.
We should support them in this by encouraging them, investing in education and setting up local programs.
In negotiations, the western states should formulate the conditions for possible economic support for the regime in no uncertain terms.