AreaRead the video transcript of the talk open here
Markus Feldenkirchen:
We are now talking about the right, supposedly right, way of dealing with Putin's regime.
And you, Frau Flaßpöhler, as I said, co-signed this one open letter to the Federal Chancellor.
Just signed?
Why do you say that delivering heavy weapons to Ukraine is a crucial step too many?
Svenja Fasspoehler:
The question is where is this dynamic going, which we have been going through for a few weeks or months now and in which one taboo after the other is falling?
In the beginning it was taboo to even supply weapons.
Now it's the taboo of heavy weapons.
That said, this is a dynamic that is progressive.
If Putin goes further now, and he can still go further because he still has the nuclear option, be it just that he tests one, a tactical nuclear weapon, somewhere.
Then the West must react again.
And we have now written this letter because we had the impression that Scholz could not really justify this step of now supplying heavy weapons.
At least he couldn't really dispel the fear that this could lead to a nuclear escalation, but he basically did it
in coordination with our partners.
That's what it always means, as if coordination with our partners would solve the basic problem in some way.
Feldenkirchen:
You signed a letter for the delivery of heavy weapons.
Aren't you worried about escalation to the point of nuclear war?
Wladimir Kaminer:
No, I see it the other way around.
Of course, if the regime in Moscow sees how great the fear it is sowing, with a threat of nuclear missiles, it will always go on.
And he doesn't have to occupy Europe or Germany at all, you don't have to occupy a country that is kneeling anyway.
That's already yours per se. You don't need to use any weapons anymore.
The nuclear threat functions as a threat.
So using these weapons is very, very problematic.
Faßpöhler:
I mean, I know that people always accuse us of being so pacifistic, but to be honest, I like what the Stack.carpenters are doing here.
It's balcony bellicism.
They're sitting here in the dry, delivering weapons and saying So, now they're defending our freedom.
Well, I think the acid test is, I have to be honest, would I be willing to send my child to war, my son?
And I can say quite clearly: No way!
Absolutely no way.
And I think we have to ask ourselves this question here.
If we were, we would actually be willing to do that.
Otherwise, it's an extremely comfortable position.
Kaminer:
We are clearly not ready to go into this war.
I also made that clear and unequivocal to Mr. Scholz.
It is now about military aid.
We must do everything we can to help the Ukrainians.
We need this military defeat of the Russian army.
And now everything is in control, here too, no matter what the President says at the parade.
Feldenkirchen
: What would the defeat look like?
Kaminer:
Unfortunately, in the situation of war, you need that as a prerequisite for a conversation.
Faßpöhler:
I totally see that.
You need military strength.
I think so.
Ukraine needs that.
You can't without it...
Feldenkirchen:
But you also say that at some point the support is good.
Faßpöhler:
We have to seize the moment when both are weak.
Then we really have to work towards an armistice with all our might, with all our diplomatic strength, in order then of course to continue negotiating.
And our letter doesn't say Ukraine should capitulate, it's about a compromise that is acceptable to both sides.
It's all about this.
And the only question is when?
When do you take this path?
And we'd rather say too soon than too late.
Feldenkirchen:
At the beginning of this war there were repeated reports of discrimination against people of Russian origin in Germany, for example against Russian restaurants.
Have you experienced something like Russophobia since then, Mr. Kaminer?
Kaminer:
That's really terrible, I have to say honestly.
I was then asked very often, intervened?
Is that correct?
Have you experienced this?
So I say that as a person of Russian origin.
There is an extra page, on the internet, set up at the Russian embassy: Hating Russia, where all cases are summarized.
I went to this site and from there, usually these are anonymous people.
I found people I know well there.
The owner of the Kasatschok grocery store was threatened because he sympathized with Putin.
Feldenkirchen:
And it wasn't true?
Kaminer:
That's my neighbor.
This store, it's a Ukrainian.
He wishes Putin to burn in hell, has renamed all products and now only sells Ukrainian products.
Or the chef from Pasternak, from the restaurant.
He has provided more help to refugees than the entire Federal Foreign Office in Germany.
They lie like they breathe is really unbelievable bullshit.
Even with this Cancel Culture, the Russian culture is no longer welcome that Tchaikovsky had to be moved somewhere in Zagreb.
Feldenkirchen:
But you once complained about that, Ms. Flasspöhler, in which you said: At the moment, many believe that they are defending freedom by banning everything Russian from our culture.
Faßpöhler:
Yes, that was at the very beginning, it was, you could watch it.
That was a reaction that could be observed very widely in this country.
And I think that's very worthy of criticism.
I mean, these are artists who might not have anything to do with Putin at all.
They're just Russian.
So why do you have to ban everything Russian now?
Because an autocrat, or let's say dictator, commits a war crime.
Kaminer:
My mother goes to the Berlin Philharmonie every other day.
Only Russians play there.
Petrenko, the conductor, is a Russian who almost only accuses Russian musicians.
You have nothing else in the program than Tchaikovsky.
Faßpöhler:
A lot has been canceled.
Feldenkirchen:
Give an example of canceled Russians in the culture.
Faßpöhler:
A play in Essen was canceled because it was a Russian play.
That's because there are several examples.
Kaminer:
I would put it like this: Possibly, it's not required by the state.
We no longer do Russian culture in our country by decree.
It's possible that local people just don't feel like Russian culture at the moment.
And I can understand that very well.