He is a French writer who needs no introduction, she is a British investigative journalist who revealed one of the biggest scandals of the last decade.
The Cambridge Analytica case, this British company accused of having collected the data of tens of millions of Internet users, without their consent.
These personal and very informed data were used to develop ultra-targeted communication campaigns, within the framework of the election of Donald Trump, in November 2016, as well as Brexit.
For her work and her speeches, the young woman is prosecuted in court.
His opponent?
An English tycoon who supported the pro-Brexit campaign and allegedly funded data processing and fake news creation tools.
The trial was held at the very beginning of the
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Embarked as a character in the novels of Marc Levy, Carole Cadwalladr already appeared, in a discreet way, in the first two volumes (
It happened at night
and
Le Crépuscule des fauves
) of the saga
9,
in which the author plunges into the daily news Robin Hood of modern times, whistleblowers, committed investigators... In
Noa,
the third volume of the series which has just been published, she has become a central figure in the novel, so central that, to protect her, Marc Levy gave her another first name: Janice.
In the middle of their respective diaries, these two have found a place to answer
Madame Figaro's questions.
A three-way conversation by Zoom, between a New York apartment, a motorway service area in Greece and a newspaper in Paris.
A particularly moving moment, when Marc Levy took advantage of a network cut to confide, without Carole being able to hear him, that he had taken a New York-London flight for a simple lunch with the one who was to become his heroine.
Until then, he had never dared to admit to her that that day, he had the happy surprise of discovering her exactly as he had imagined her.
In video,
The Great Hack
, the trailer
Miss Figaro.
–
What is the story of your meeting?
Marc Levy.–
I went to meet Carole.
I have long been passionate about journalism.
Like others follow the work of a novelist, I follow the work of journalists, either because they are in a line of research that interests me a lot, or for their talent, their style.
There are people who idolize singers or actors, I'm the great reporters!
I would have been much more impressed to meet Dan Rather (
former star presenter of the CBS Evening News between 1981 and 2005, editor's note
) than any rock star!
Carole Cadwalladr.–
For my part, I heard a lot about Marc before meeting him.
And, one day, Susanna Lea (
Marc Levy's agent, editor's note
) started telling me this incredible story he was writing and which strongly resembled what I had experienced.
I had a hard time believing it.
It seemed like a fairy tale to me.
And that's the book that just came out!
As others follow the work of a novelist, I follow the work of journalists, either because they are in a line of research that interests me greatly, or for their talent, their style
Marc Levy
ML–
We met in London before writing the third volume.
I still asked you for permission to inspire me from you!
CC -
It's true.
In the British media and political establishment, I've been so sneered at for downplaying the significance of this Cambridge Analytica affair, which may have led to Brexit, that being taken seriously changes me from that to what I have to do in England.
It moves me.
How did you work with each other?
ML–
I couldn't have done my job if Carole hadn't done hers first.
CC-
I started the week that Donald Trump was elected, November 8, 2016. It was a full-time job, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, for almost a year and a half.
The fruits of my labor have appeared in the British daily
The Guardian
and the weekly
The Observer.
Lately, I've been putting all my energy into defending myself!
Lately, I've been putting all my energy into defending myself!
Carole Cadwalladr
You talk about this trial. Did you have the feeling of being listened to, repaired? That justice has done its job of… justice?
CC–
No, absolutely not.
When you are pursued, you are asked very specific questions to which you answer more or less yes or no.
You don't have the opportunity to say what you want.
And when you have a businessman in front of you who spends so much money (to date £1million) trying to bring you down, you almost feel cheated.
ML–
In my book, this character has a name – his name is Ayrton Cash, for Arron Banks, which is really hard to guess.
(To smile.)
To me, letting a powerful man use his money to gag the press is like burning our passports right now and giving up on democracy.
However, I am convinced that the world goes backwards when “good” people give up.
That's exactly why I wanted Carole to become a character in a novel: so that no one could say, "I didn't know."
Now she is no longer alone!
Full screen
In 2019, Carole Cadwalladr testified in
The Great Hack,
the documentary devoted to the Facebook-Cambridge Analytica affair.
netflix
Whistleblowers are at the heart of both of your work. They are the ones who informed you, Carole, and they are characters from your three novels, Marc. What interests you about this type of personality?
CC–
They are complex beings: by definition, they have been involved in situations that they decide, after a certain time, to reveal.
In the same scenario, 99% of people do not move.
However, there is this small 1% who decides to speak.
I admire them.
I saw some of them being completely traumatized by the personal difficulties they had to go through, the repercussions that their speaking out had had on their lives.
It is an act of immense courage.
ML–
My father was in the French Resistance.
The first thing I learned as a child was that democracy is not inalienable.
It is something that we must protect every day.
However, over the past ten years, with the terrible effects of social networks, we have seen groups who want to keep or seize power, constitute – by this means – a parallel, false and dangerous reality.
In my father's country, I think it is important to talk about this other type of resistant.
The first thing I learned as a child was that democracy is not inalienable
Marc Levy
Do whistleblowers represent the new resistance fighters for you?
ML–
They are the first resisters!
Sometimes it's complicated, because some of them have a controversial past, but instead of being silent, they stand up and say: "That's enough, we have to denounce this situation."
But the craziest thing about our democracy is that these people are in more danger than the criminals they expose...
You have long accustomed your readers to books that show the world in color. It would seem, with this trilogy
9,
that the commitment and the fact of telling something else, has become essential...
ML–
I will not tell people that the world has become black and white, because that creates in individuals a feeling of dejection.
But our job (Carole's like mine) is precisely to protect the colors.
That's what my characters do: they dedicate their lives to it!
Throughout seventeen books, I told stories through comedy.
But as in Italian comedies, comedies can be tragic.
CC-
I am still regularly surprised to see how some people do not see the reality of the world in which we live, in what danger we find ourselves.
Many understand, but sometimes it's too much for them.
That Marc succeeds in translating this into literature, in a universe where there is still hope, makes it possible to reach a different audience.
I strongly believe in the power of fiction!
THE PRICE OF COURAGE
It's a day in April 2019, in Vancouver.
Carole Cadwalladr makes final adjustments on stage for her TED talk.
After a few minutes of rehearsal, everyone drinks his words, the technicians stopped what they were doing.
The leader of the conference comes out of the darkness and says to him: “It is extraordinary, you will make the opening.”
In this fifteen-minute video, she explains Facebook's role in Brexit and the threat to democracy.
That evening, in the room, there is Mark Zuckerberg.
He will hear him say, "Facebook is the scene of the crime."
He won't pursue her, but not everyone does.
This intervention has, in fact, for three years, triggered a legal process that this investigative journalist, specialist in tech,
goes through with courage wondering how to survive.
While waiting for the decision, she did not give up.
While writing a book about her story, Carole Cadwalladr created her own investigative journalism structure.
Around the three Ds: data, disinformation, democracy.
She continues to investigate through long written formats, short videos or even podcasts.
Marc Levy, of course, participated in the crowdfunding.
Carole, do you know that the book is dedicated to you?
CC -
No!
I can not believe you !
It's too much !
ML–
I did it because, regardless of my admiration for you, I know that this book will travel and that people will ask me: "Who is this Carole?"
I will be able to say to my readers: "Go see, look and learn."
And I want you to say to yourself, "I'm not alone anymore."
Noa,
by Marc Levy, Éditions Robert Laffont, 384 p., €21.90.
