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The Egyptologist Zahi Hawass, on Tuesday, September 14, at the exhibition 'Daughters of the Nile'.PABLO SANZ GARCIA
He arrives in a Mercedes Zahi Hawass at the Palacio de las Alhajas in Madrid, which hosts the exhibition
Hijas del Nilo,
about women in Ancient Egypt ―in which she has collaborated―, with the impetus of General Horemheb in his chariot.
The former Egyptian Minister of Antiquities and author of great discoveries does not wear his emblematic hat, that fedora that he has stolen from Indiana Jones to make him an icon of contemporary Egyptology, but his energy, his robust constitution despite his 75 years and his aura of sacred Apis bull of discipline make him unmistakable.
His mood is gray as day - Hawass in a bad mood, glups - and in the interview, although you have known him for more than thirty years, he shows himself successively, and without ceasing to be passionate and exciting, authoritarian, sharp, dismissive and booming
Although in the end he has the detail of signing with his autograph a facsimile of a plan of Tutankhamun's tomb drawn by hand by his discoverer,
Howard Carter.
He does it with large strokes that cover a large part of the drawing of the tomb, from the descending passage to the burial chamber.
More information
digging the archive of the discoverer of the tomb of Tutankhamun: the other "wonderful things" of the greatest archaeological find in history
Ask.
We are already close to the centenary anniversary of the discovery of Tutankhamun's tomb, on November 4th.
What is planned in Egypt?
Response.
Many acts.
We will have a big celebration that day that will end with a dinner at the Luxor temple.
We'll start at Carter's own house, at the entrance to the Valley of the Kings, and then from there we'll go to the grave.
There will be a conference of specialists, with 40 international speakers.
I will speak at the end.
I will do this because I am currently the only one excavating in the Valley of the Kings, where we have discovered two new tombs, KV 65 and KV 66, of relatives of Tutankhamun.
I also work on the tomb of Ramses II and, as you know, I have found, on the very west bank of the Nile in Luxor, the Golden City, a landmark of archaeology.
Q.
Announce new discoveries…
R.
Before the anniversary two important things will happen.
The first, that we are going to identify, with DNA tests, the mummies of Nefertiti and her daughter and wife of Tutankhamun, Ankesenamun.
And second, also thanks to DNA studies we are going to elucidate whether Tutankhamun suffered from an infection or not.
If so, it will be proven that he died from injuries in an accident.
Q.
Wow, by car?
R.
Yes, surely, because there is a fracture in the left leg.
Q.
And where do Nefertiti and Ankesenamón come from?
A.
We have mummies of unidentified royal women.
They would be the two found in tomb KV 21 (excavated by Belzoni in 1817 and by Donald Ryan in 1987) and both show signs of being queens.
Now we'll test it with DNA.
In the case of Ankesenamón we have, for comparison, the two fetuses from Tutankhamun's tomb who were their sons.
Q.
You subscribe to the theory that Nefertiti reigned as pharaoh.
R.
Yes, he changed his name to reign.
P.
Also look for his tomb, from which the mummy would have been extracted.
Is Nicholas Reeves's theory that it could be attached to Tutankhamun's already ruled out?
A.
Completely.
It's not there, no way.
For many reasons.
The first because no one makes a tomb in someone else's: it would destroy its spiritual value.
Second, because Tutankhamun was not the son of Nefertiti to be in the same tomb.
And third, because we have already seen that there is nothing there.
Zahi Hawass, center, oversees the transfer of Tutankhamun's mummy in June 2007. ASSOCIATED PRESS
Q.
I imagine that Reeves will not be at the centenary celebrations.
R.
Well yes it will be, why not?
Q.
You vetoed it and expelled it from the Valley of the Kings.
R.
I vetoed it a long time ago because it identified antiques for illicit sellers.
Then she was forgiven.
P.
What do you think happened to Reeves to propose such a risky hypothesis?
R.
Everyone has the right to formulate theories.
But you have to try them.
Q.
There is no denying that the thing was attractive.
Secret chambers in the tomb of Tutankhamun, Nefertiti... Fascinating.
A.
Yes, speculation is always fascinating.
Q.
How is your relationship with Howard Carter this centenary year?
You had been very critical of him and his patron, Lord Carnarvon.
A.
I respect Carter.
He did a very good job.
He removed those thousands of objects from the tomb with great delicacy and professionalism.
I do not respect Carnarvon, who only wanted to get benefits from the discovery and seeing that the legislation did not allow him to keep things from the tomb because it was intact, he took them anyway, secretly.
Q.
Well, Carter too.
Now that indignant letter from Gardiner has come out in which he reproaches him for having given him an object without telling him it was from the tomb, a matter that was already known.
It has long been clear that Carter stole things from Tutankhamun's tomb: in fact, on his death those he kept had to be discreetly returned to Egypt.
A.
Yes, but they were minor things, not what one would steal.
Q.
Here, but he stole them.
R.
They were more things for study, that is very different from taking unique objects to enrich yourself.
Carnarvon did take important things from the tomb.
He attributed the missing items to the tomb being robbed in ancient times, but those thieves were caught and nothing was taken.
Q.
What things did Carnarvon keep? Are they going to claim them?
A.
I don't know.
I haven't seen them.
They would have to be searched for in their castle at Highclere.
If we saw them we would claim them.
Egyptologist Howard Carter next to Tutankhamun's sarcophagus in Egypt. The Granger Collection (Cordon Press)
P.
Excuse me for being surprised by your change in attitude with Carter, it even seems that you have cried at his grave in Putney.
A few years ago he considered him little less than a madman who destroyed the mummy of Tutankhamun by opening it.
He said it in London in public.
He called him a mummy molester and all.
A.
It is true.
But then I saw that if I put myself in Carter's shoes there was no choice.
There was no other way to remove the gold mask than how he did it.
Carter was a very good archaeologist and should not be criticized.
Thanks to Carter.
Q.
Would it have been better if they had not found the grave then, in 1922?
R.
What nonsense, why?
P.
It could have been investigated now with 21st century technology, non-invasive and non-destructive.
Perhaps you could even have discovered it.
R.
The fact is that he discovered it, Carter, and that's it.
Things happen when they happen.
Archeology is for everyone, everyone has the right to make discoveries.
Maybe I'll find Nefertiti's tomb now.
In addition, I have already made other finds, such as the Golden City, which is as important as the tomb of Tutankhamun.
P.
Do you think that your relationship with the Golden City has not been given the importance it deserves?
R.
Yes, it has been given! Everyone has spoken! A lot!
It has even been chosen as the biggest discovery of the year.
Q.
What's new in the Golden City?
A.
We have found houses, workshops, statues, even a place where they made sandals, and a lake.
We have found the name of Pharaoh Smenkara, the mysterious and short-lived successor of Akhenaten, and we know the original name of the city: Ascent of Aten.
Q.
What was your relationship with Amarna?
If in the time of his father Amenophis III Akhenaten already had an Atonian city, why did he go to make another one?
R.
Akhenaten did not want to be in Thebes, where the powerful priests of Amun ruled.
Q.
A recent novel toyed with the idea that Carnarvon could have been murdered.
What do you think?
R.
_
For whom?
It is a fantasy.
He was sick.
He was annoying, but we didn't kill him.
Zahi Hawass, at the entrance of his conference on Tuesday in Madrid. PABLO SANZ GARCIA
P.
The role of the Egyptian workers in the discovery is being claimed, taking them out of anonymity.
R.
It is always the workers who find things, but the responsibility for the discovery lies with the scientific team.
We all have workers working on the site.
At that time there were no Egyptian Egyptologists.
P.
But yes, very capable foremen.
R.
And Carter recognized them and quoted, like his rais, what was his name?
R.
Ahmed Gerigar.
A.
That's it.
P.
The Great Egyptian Museum (GME) delays its inauguration again, until next year.
It will take longer than the Cheops pyramid…
A.
There have been delays due to the pandemic and the planned opening has been postponed for security reasons due to the climate change conference that Egypt is hosting in November in Sharm El Sheikh.
It is a project that I launched in 2002, but so many things have been happening.
The museum is finished.
We are now clearing the entire area between the GME and the pyramids and finishing the new airport.
The inauguration will be the most important in the history of Egypt, 12 days of celebrations.
Q.
Was it a good idea to take the royal mummies from the old Egyptian Museum not to the GME but to the Museum of Civilization?
R.
Yes, now we have three good museums, the mummies are a good attraction for the Museum of Egyptian Civilization, in Fustat, in old Cairo, without them nobody would go.
They are its main attraction, like that of the GME is the treasure of Tutankhamun.
P.
Have you thought about moving the mummy of Tutankhamun?
A.
It will continue to be exposed in his tomb in the Valley of the Kings.
We considered moving her, but the people of Luxor would not accept her leaving, and we will respect that.
P.
What do you think about the condom that would have been identified in Tutankhamun's trousseau? It seems that it is a linen with olive oil.
A.
No, no.
P.
Announce new claims of expatriate masterpieces: the Nefertiti bust, the Rosetta stone, the Dendera zodiac…
R.
Yes, we will continue to insist until these great looted works of our heritage return.
Q.
Do you regret anything in your career?
R.
No, I never regret anything.
I do everything for the love of Egypt and its antiquities.
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