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Marie Kondo: "Surrounding yourself with unnecessary things doesn't make you happy"

2023-01-08T10:00:38.863Z


One crisis follows the next and the world sinks into garbage. How do we deal with all this chaos? Tidying expert Marie Kondo on clearing out – even where nobody sees the mess: in the soul.


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Marie Kondo

Photo:

Nastassia Brückin & Tess Comrie / Rowohlt

SPIEGEL:

Ms. Kondo, you've been mucking out our houses for many years now, but there's more and more chaos all around us.

Do you sometimes despair?

Marie Kondo:

No.

I still enjoy tidying up, even at my house.

When I tidy our house, I think about how I can organize it better.

I find that satisfying.

SPIEGEL:

You're probably the only person who became popular through tidying up.

In English, your surname even became a verb. »To kondo« means something like »to clean out«.

Kondo:

I never thought I'd be famous.

And then like this.

I think that's crazy too.

Who expects their own name to become a verb?

SPIEGEL:

In recent years, many people have spent more time at home than ever before.

How has the pandemic changed our relationship with home?

Kondo:

We've developed a deeper relationship with our home in every way.

Many have asked me for advice on how to organize it better.

SPIEGEL:

Did we tend to tidy up and muck out the apartments during the lockdown, or did we buy more?

Kondo:

Of course, only customers who want to tidy up and clear out come to me.

That's why I got the impression that people are more interested in it.

But it can happen that when cleaning out you realize that you are missing this one part in the kitchen, which would really bring joy.

After clearing out, many people know very clearly what belongs in their home and what does not.

You become more selective.

But that also means that they basically don't buy so much superfluous stuff anymore.

SPIEGEL:

But most of them do the opposite.

They keep buying more.

Kondo:

I think a lot of people are realizing that they have to look at what they've bought differently.

SPIEGEL:

When is enough enough?

Kondo:

It's difficult to give a general answer to that.

Of course, it comes at a different time for everyone.

But just cleaning up brings us closer to that moment.

Anyone who clears out takes a very close look at what they have purchased.

And then you think about each item, whether you want to keep it or throw it away.

The goal of the process is to regain joy from the things we surround ourselves with.

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Feel joy in things again

Photo: Nastassia Brückin & Tess Comrie / Rowohlt

SPIEGEL:

That's exactly what some are accusing you of.

You make us clean out first – and then tempt us to new consumption with your online shop.

Kondo:

I've never recommended anyone to buy anything new from my online store.

If someone has cleaned up and is satisfied afterwards, then that's wonderful.

But I'm also not saying that everyone should live as minimalist as possible.

Or that you have to throw away as much as possible.

I believe objects can bring us joy.

And we have to allow ourselves to be receptive to that feeling again.

SPIEGEL:

Where does that actually come from?

That an object makes us happy?

Kondo:

It's hard to explain.

Sometimes an object has emotional value for us because we associate it with a story, a person, or an emotion.

But sometimes it's all about aesthetics.

Everyone knows that: Even the design of a teacup can make you very happy.

Even the tea tastes better then.

SPIEGEL:

Since Corona, one crisis has followed the next: war in the Ukraine, inflation, recession.

In a chaotic world situation, does the need for an overview in private grow for many?

Kondo:

I think so.

Order can give us back a bit of control.

That's why I think it has become even more important in these times to organize the private.

After all, we often have little influence in the world, but it's different in our immediate environment.

It can help us a lot to put at least them in order.

And it can be comforting to treat our home with appreciation.

It protects us from this chaotic world.

SPIEGEL:

Or do many people want to hold on to as many things as possible in this crisis?

Kondo:

Some people need the feeling that they are preparing for a crisis in the best possible way with as many things as possible.

This too can be a strategy for dealing with an uncertain future.

But how many things do we need to make us feel safe?

When are we going too far?

MIRROR:

And?

Kondo:

I don't know.

But what I do know is that surrounding yourself with unnecessary things doesn't make you happy.

SPIEGEL:

There is currently a lack of raw materials, semiconductors, energy and workers.

If you want to buy a new washing machine or a new oven, you can be lucky if you get a device in a timely manner.

Some dealers even advise keeping old devices for the time being.

Is this the end of the decluttering?

Kondo:

The world has changed a lot since I started decluttering.

This situation, for example, is completely new.

Maybe I need to revise some elements of my concept again.

But the end of the decluttering?

I think you should take a good look at the world situation.

But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ask yourself exactly which things you really need - and which ones you can do without.

SPIEGEL:

What would you change about your concept?

Kondo:

I wrote my first book 12 years ago.

Of course not only the world but also my life has changed a lot since then.

In my tidying concept, I recommend, for example, dividing objects into categories and clearing out and tidying up each category at once, for example clothing - regardless of whether it's jackets in the wardrobe or T-shirts in the wardrobe.

I am now a mother of three children.

So I know how it feels to never have enough time.

It's also almost impossible for me to clean up in one go.

That's why I would now advise making the categories even smaller, for example just clearing out trousers.

SPIEGEL:

For many mothers it is almost impossible to reconcile job, family and care work and their own needs.

Having to keep a tidy home has added to the pressure for some.

Kondo:

I understand that.

Therefore, you should adapt the tidying concept to your own life.

And don't be so strict with yourself.

SPIEGEL:

How do you manage to strike a balance between the obligations?

Kondo:

I have accepted where I am in my life right now.

And let go in the best sense.

In everyday life this means: I ask myself what I enjoy more about right now, having a tidy living room or playing with my children.

And if things sometimes get a bit messy at my house, then that's the way it is.

So I'm not angry with myself.

SPIEGEL:

You always seem so peaceful and balanced.

Do you sometimes get annoyed too?

Kondo:

Ha!

Naturally.

I have a cycle.

And know ups and downs.

I am like any other woman.

SPIEGEL:

According to legend, you began designing your family's apartment in Tokyo in the style of feng shui when you were a child.

What fascinated you about it back then?

Most kids hate tidying up.

Kondo:

It was like video games and sports for other kids for me.

I've always been interested in it.

It probably also has something to do with the fact that my mother is a housewife and always enjoyed doing housework and homework.

She infected me with it.

I also enjoyed cooking and doing other household chores.

But tidying up was the only thing I wasn't good at.

SPIEGEL:

You weren't good at that?

Kondo:

When it comes to cooking, the more you do it, the better you get at it.

But when you tidy up, no matter how much you tidy up, things always get messy.

There is no real improvement.

So I asked myself how it stays tidy once you've cleaned it up.

That's how my concept came about.

SPIEGEL:

You also tidied up your classroom during the breaks.

And as a teenager, you once got so obsessed with tidying up that you broke down and passed out.

Kondo:

I was a strange kid.

SPIEGEL:

How do you organize your inner chaos?

Kondo:

First of all, bringing order to my physical environment.

Meanwhile, one often thinks about what is causing the inner chaos.

Sometimes that helps.

If not, I write down everything that's bothering me.

Then I look at it as soberly as possible and organize it.

That may be simple.

But that's how I organize my heart.

SPIEGEL:

In your new book you also recommend rituals.

Among other things, you smoke with wood, use a singing bowl and gargle with Ayurvedic oil.

As we continue to delve into self-care, isn't that a departure from the world that needs our attention now more than ever?

Kondo:

No.

We need a balance in life.

We have to take good care of ourselves so that we have enough strength to even go out into the world.

I therefore do not consider self-care to be superfluous frills, but to be extremely important.

SPIEGEL:

What do you say to a woman who doesn't know where to find five minutes for meditation in the morning between all her commitments?

Kondo:

First of all, I understand them very well.

You shouldn't increase the pressure that we are already exposed to with your own rituals.

If you don't have five minutes to take a few deep breaths, don't stress.

But if you don't take the time for self-care at all, you may suffer as a result.

I think stretching for five minutes and organizing your thoughts can make a difference.

But I don't want to give any dogmatic advice.

I too have mornings when I don't know how to organize the day.

SPIEGEL:

Most of the housework is still left to women, including cleaning up.

Are women better at it because they often had to learn it early?

Kondo:

The more people I've helped clean up, the more I've come to the conclusion that it's a very individual story.

How good you are at it has nothing to do with gender.

SPIEGEL:

There aren't any differences?

It's hard to imagine.

Kondo:

We're making it a bit too easy for ourselves by reducing the topic to role models.

But I'm already noticing that more women are interested in tidying up.

SPIEGEL:

Maybe because men duck away and their partners then have to do the same.

Kondo:

That's not how it works.

Everyone can only muck out their own things.

Nobody else can do the job, not even partners.

And of course men also ask me for help.

SPIEGEL:

Do you sometimes feel like the little robot WALL·E in the Disney film of the same name, the last one left in the world trying in vain to clean the planet of human leftovers?

Kondo:

I guess I have to see the movie.

But I don't feel lost cleaning up.

But on the contrary!

When you create order, you also clean up your own heart.

My customers notice that too.

After cleaning up, they ask me how they can reorganize their lives.

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»When you create order, you also tidy up your own heart.«

Photo: Nastassia Brückin & Tess Comrie / Rowohlt

SPIEGEL:

What exactly did they want to know from you?

Kondo:

Especially how they manage to relax more.

And how you can find a balance between work and free time at home.

After all, home office and the end of the day often slip into one another, and many people hardly manage to switch off the computer.

Others think very fundamentally about how they actually want to spend their time.

You want to get back to the basics of life.

SPIEGEL:

What do you mean by that?

Kondo:

Many try to integrate nature back into their lives, for example by gardening or hiking.

Many also want to do things themselves again instead of buying everything ready-made.

They cook miso soup or bake bread.

I feel the same way.

Although speed and efficiency have increased in our lives, we try to take it easy in our free time.

For me, this is a strategy to calm down.

SPIEGEL:

Our planet is going under in rubbish, whole islands are drowning in a sea of ​​rubbish.

Do you still have hope that one day we will clean it up and it will bring us joy again?

Kondo:

When we imagine the sheer scale, we can despair.

Therefore, I advise you to first ask yourself what you can do yourself.

We can only clean our own environment, tidy it up and appreciate the things around us.

We can try to build peaceful and loving relationships with those around us.

And I think that's how we can change the world a bit.

SPIEGEL:

But the catastrophes we are confronted with, such as the climate crisis, cannot be solved by individual small things.

Kondo:

I'm not saying that's possible either.

And I never made a statement about how we can save the world.

And yet I have hope that we will succeed.

Because I have seen people who have completely changed their lives and themselves by creating order.

That's why I'm hoping that we can do it on a larger scale.

Source: spiegel

All life articles on 2023-01-08

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