SPIEGEL:
Mr. Kubicki, the expansion of the Marie-Elisabeth-Lüders-Haus in Berlin's parliamentary and government district should be completed by 2014.
When can MPs move in?
Kubicki:
We want to be able to open and use the building by 2024 at the latest.
It is currently being made operational, which is a technically challenging matter due to the connection to the existing complex system.
SPIEGEL:
The extension on the Spree was originally supposed to cost 190 million euros.
Then the Bundestag approved a maximum cost ceiling of 332.3 million.
Is that enough?
Kubicki:
No.
We are now at 366 million euros.
SPIEGEL:
Why did the costs get so out of hand?
Kubicki:
Planning and execution errors led to a considerable delay.
The complex now has to comply with the new Federal Emission Protection Ordinance in accordance with the EU directive.
The consequences are serious: the complete redesign and replacement of the energy and heating technology in the basement.
Visible signs of this are the recently erected large chimneys on the roof edge of the building.
These were not intended.
SPIEGEL:
Additional Bundestag buildings are to be erected along the Spree.
Here, GDR prefab buildings were demolished years ago for the Luisenblock Ost.
Why doesn't this continue?
Kubicki:
Among other things, we have a building there at Schiffbauerdamm 19, which is owned by the Ver.di trade union.
However, the entire area not only required negotiations with Ver.di on property issues, but also required an agreement on the planned procedure with the Berlin stakeholders - the House of Representatives, Senate Administration and district as well as the Federal Agency for Real Estate Tasks and Deutsche Bahn as the neighbor and owner of the S- railway viaduct.
The GDR prefabricated buildings you are talking about are owned by the federal government anyway and have been used by the Bundestag for years – so not much will change in terms of use at this point.
SPIEGEL:
The Ver.di building is a listed old building.
Should it be demolished?
Kubicki:
That's not true.
Years ago, the Berlin monument authorities classified the building as not worth preserving in an assessment.
We will focus on that.
I have already found a compromise with those responsible at Ver.di together with the Berlin side.
The contracts between the Federal Agency for Real Estate Tasks and Ver.di are about to be finalized.
SPIEGEL:
And what does Ver.di get now?
Kubicki:
A new building by Ver.di is to be built at a different location, further east, near Friedrichstrasse station.
This will separate Ver.di from the urban planning competition, which will allow greater freedom for all those involved and, above all, for the forthcoming urban planning competition.
Ver.di is getting a little more space on the banks of the Spree than before.
The competition will show what happens to the old building – here, too, as few specifications as possible should be made.
SPIEGEL:
Earlier plans by Kusus and Kusus Architects for new Bundestag buildings on the Spree are off the table.
Sounds like chaos like at BER Airport.
Kubicki:
In 2009, the architect's office presented an outstanding design.
However, this was still in the tradition of the existing buildings from the 1980s and the idea of a monolithic closure of the Bundestag building.
However, everyone has said goodbye to that.
Instead, we want loose development, with courtyards and passageways that attract the public.
There is a new urban design competition for this.
SPIEGEL:
Will there be cafes, shops, restaurants?
Kubicki:
We all agree that we want to remain an open parliament.
Unfortunately, for security reasons, we cannot offer such areas because they would be gateways for possible terrorist attacks.
SPIEGEL:
What are the biggest problems?
Kubicki:
The plans have to be coordinated with all the stakeholders in Berlin, i.e. the House of Representatives, the Senate Administration and the district as well as the Federal Agency for Real Estate Tasks.
Deutsche Bahn, as the neighbor and owner of the S-Bahn, is also involved.
That's sporty.
MIRROR:
What does that mean for the costs?
Kubicki:
Originally, almost one billion euros was assumed for the construction project.
With the current enormous increases in construction costs, the entire project in the area of the Luisenblock Ost, i.e. not just for the parliament buildings, could well exceed two billion euros.
SPIEGEL:
That makes it one of the most expensive construction projects in Germany.
Are the offices still needed at all?
Kubicki:
It was decided 30 years ago that the German Bundestag would also construct buildings on this site.
The need for space has grown continuously over the past three decades, which is not solely related to the number of MPs.
Parts of the Bundestag administration are currently housed in the entire city area.
To do this, properties have to be rented and maintained at high cost for years.
These costs will disappear as soon as the new buildings are completed.
SPIEGEL:
When can the Luisenblock Ost project actually start?
Kubicki:
Hopefully soon.
For a smaller part of the area - where the RTL studio was once located - the federal government could soon start construction work, because the existing old building fabric and neighboring buildings can allow the construction of new buildings within the framework of a permit in accordance with Section 34 of the Building Code.
Such a closure of vacant lots does not require a lengthy development plan procedure.
In order not to lose any more time and risk even higher construction costs, the federal government wants to use this opportunity offered by the Berlin authorities.
An architectural competition is about to be announced.
SPIEGEL:
You sound confident?
Kubicki:
Yes.
The cooperation with the new Berlin Senate Building Director Petra Kahlfeldt is extremely constructive.
But the Ver.di players also played a large part in the agreement that was reached.
That makes me confident.
Some didn't even think I would be able to have the existing road on Schiffbauerdamm relocated for the Luisenblock Ost project.
But that will happen now.
SPIEGEL:
How did you manage that in Berlin's jungle of responsibility?
Kubicki:
Because I talk to people and don't write long letters back and forth in which I expect certain things.
With the responsible Mitte district, for example, we finally found a solution for the road relocation.
So far I have only had positive experiences from my encounters with my Berlin colleagues.
The fact that there are sometimes problems at the working level is another matter.
SPIEGEL:
Another major project during your tenure is the Bundestag Visitor and Information Center near the Reichstag, known as the BIZ for short.
According to critics, the expenditure of around 192.5 million euros estimated by the Federal Ministry of Finance could rise to around 276 million euros if so-called risk costs of 83.6 million euros were incurred.
How about that?
Kubicki:
This is similar to the construction costs for the Luisenblock East.
The amount of the estimated expenses, including all supplements, is currently around 253 million euros - but this sum also includes the costs for the new underground cooling center, the so-called UKZ, in front of the Reichstag building.
We want to start these two important projects as soon as possible.
SPIEGEL:
Why is such a building even necessary?
Kubicki:
The Bundestag is an open parliament and welcomes the many visitors from all over the world.
However, this should also be done in an appropriate framework and not, as is currently the case, in a temporary solution made of construction containers.
Not only do these containers look hideous, they are extremely embarrassing.
In the future, the new BIZ will not only be a calling card for the Bundestag, but also for the city of Berlin and the entire state.
Several million visitors will reach the Bundestag through the BIZ every year.
I am sure that everyone is aware of the importance of this project and that it can be started soon.
MIRROR:
When should it start?
Kubicki:
At the BIZ, we are planning to start construction in 2025 and finish in 2028, including a public toilet building, which was originally a central concern for the district and led to lengthy discussions.
As soon as I started on the building committee, I took on the problem and a solution was quickly found.
The former Bundestag President Wolfgang Schäuble then jokingly suggested in an internal meeting that it should be named after me.
SPIEGEL:
You are seen as a man who speaks frankly.
Should Schäuble's wish actually come true one day?
Kubicki:
Sure.
I insist (
laughs
).
Toilets are important, very important.