On February 23, before presenting her with an honorary César, Jamel Debbouze paid tribute to her by saying how much she had “raised him, in the literal sense of the term”: “I gained height alongside her.
I was much smaller than that.
I was a meter before meeting her.”
Whatever our size, heels included or not, Agnès Jaoui raised us all a little too.
By painting, through the films she co-wrote with Jean-Pierre Bacri, made alone or even through her roles, portraits of imperfect and endearing women, clumsy and independent, whose qualities, like faults, were highlighted by the same smirk.
And whose weaknesses were never used at their expense, and even less mocked.
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Also read “When she loves you, it’s for life”: Jamel Debbouze makes Agnès Jaoui’s tears flow at the 2024 Césars
This is how she plays Judith, a woman suffering from manic-depressive disorders in
La Vie de ma Mère
, Julien Carpentier's first film.
Capable of making couscous for twelve on a whim or plunging into the abyss of depression or alcoholism that could put her in danger, Judith lives in a specialized establishment.
From which she escapes one fine day to join her son Pierre (William Lebghil), a florist whose professional and emotional life could finally take off.
Would it not be the (invasive) presence of his mother, with whom he finds himself embarked on a constrained and forced road trip.
In this film which underlines, with delicacy and humor, the impact of mental disorders on those who suffer from them and those around them, Agnès Jaoui plays Judith in all her states, lost on a motorway rest area as if exhilarated in a karaoke bar, without falling into melodrama or excess.
A subtlety of which she has the secret, and which continues to “elevate” us.
Madame Figaro.- What attracted you to
The Life of My Mother
?
Agnès Jaoui.-
What appealed to me is that we understand a lot of things.
I liked the great accuracy of what is described, about this deficient mother and the collateral damage she causes.
We can clearly see the powerlessness to help, to live alongside someone who suffers from these disorders.
And I also liked the fact that we understand that my character doesn't do this on purpose, that it's an illness.
How did you manage to feel close to her?
There are people who are fairly even-tempered, I'm not.
I don't think I'm manic-depressive, but I think I understand very well what it's like.
In any case, I can go from euphoria to despair in the same hour, sometimes even in the same minute.
All this is not foreign to me.
I also have friends, notably a very dear friend who suffers from it profoundly, clinically: obviously, I thought a lot about her while playing the role.
This has always been my way of working: making the characters my own, defending them from the inside.
Of course, these are roles that are great for an actress, because the palette is very broad.
There are also pitfalls like “drunk” scenes, we can fall into caricature.
But I knew that Julien Carpentier knew the subject well.
We talked about it a lot, we saw films together.
And I offered him more or less extroverted versions, between which he would choose.
Also read “I understood that I couldn’t save him”: they are in a relationship with a bipolar person
What are these films that inspired you?
A woman under the influence
,
A crazy life
,
Les Intranquilles
, or
Folles de joie
.
Agnès Jaoui and William Lebghil in
La Vie de ma Mère
, by Julien Carpentier.
Flint Films
Mental health is a timeless subject, but
it has taken center stage
, in fiction as well as in public space, since words have been released around it.
Have you always been sensitive to it?
This is a subject I have been familiar with for a long time for personal reasons.
But it's also because I've gotten older, more mature and more experienced that I've understood more about mental illness.
I am the daughter of a psychologist
(her mother Gysa Jaoui was a psychoanalyst, Editor's note)
: until now, I was a bit "all psychologist", and I still think that therapy has immense virtues.
But I also realize the importance of internal chemistry, of the brain.
It's fascinating, and we're starting to understand how all of this ties in with psychoanalysis.
Obviously, it's very good that everyone is talking about it, that we dare more.
With the risk that everyone thinks they are bipolar or narcissistic pervert or allergic to gluten.
There is also a kind of fashion, but it doesn't matter.
The character you played in
We Know the Song
(by Alain Resnais, released in 1997, co-written by Agnès Jaoui and Jean-Pierre Bacri), was a young doctoral student suffering from depression.
However, he did not fall into any of the clichés that we associate with this illness, hysteria or apathy.
Does this “measure” matter to you?
She was spasmophilic, but yes, there was a collapse in her.
It's true that we have misconceptions on this subject.
People are like, “No, I don’t want to do therapy because I’m not crazy.”
Whereas it is precisely because we are not crazy that we go to therapy.
It’s precisely because we’re not crazy that we go to therapy.
Agnes Jaoui
In
The Life of My Mother
, we sense an authentic complicity between William Lebghil, who plays your son, and you.
Yes, completely.
We started with readings before filming and very quickly, we felt that we were laughing at the same things, that we were on the same wavelength.
William, as well as Julien, are men who have an infinitely gentle virility, it's very pleasant.
I have the impression that we live in the same country.
You play the role of a mother who must let her son go, “freeing” him so that he can mature. This is a subject that was also found in
The Last of the Jews
, by Noé Debré, released in January.
How does this theme resonate with you?
I find it very interesting to express the complexity of being a mother.
There is such a mythology of the “good mother”... Despite all the advances, all the liberations of women, we keep this image of the perfect, sacrificial mother, this idea of the evidence of maternal love.
It remains one of the taboo subjects that continues to weigh on our shoulders and those of our children.
I find it important to also show mothers who are like us all: we try, and we don't always succeed.
Mothers are women first, human beings trying to do the best they can, where they are, with their lives and their abilities.
William Lebghil and Agnès Jaoui in
La Vie de ma Mère
, by Julien Carpentier.
Flint Films
The Life of My Mother
does not only sum up your character in this function.
We feel that there is a whole existence behind motherhood and illness.
Yes, moreover she claims to have a sex life, to still be a woman.
I find it important to also show mothers who are like us all: we try, and we don't always succeed.
Being “still” a woman: at 59 years old, is this a subject that is important to you to highlight through your films? Or is this self-evident?
It goes without saying, but it's true that sometimes I get roles where I feel that I am no longer "just" the mother... Or now, the grandmother.
Being reduced to a function “annoys” me, I don’t see the point of it.
In the same way, being just the “hottie” or the wife waiting for her husband who is never there... Help.
Any time a character is one-dimensional, it's boring.
So I simply say no.
Refusing these roles also allows us to offer new female representations for future generations. Which characters had this impact on you?
I remember
Thelma and Louise
, which had a big impact on me.
Do you identify with Thelma, or with Louise?
To the one who kills!
It's not so much that I want to kill anyone, but I liked the one who's the most rock'n'roll;
I think it's Thelma, played by Susan Sarandon, even though both are in emancipation.
I remember this cinema session perfectly: I was a young girl, I went there in a very classic dress, found at the flea market.
When I left the screening, I put on jeans, boots and a cropped t-shirt.
I also remember
Bagdad Café,
the fact that the character of the German tourist
(played by Marianne Sägebrecht, Editor's note)
was fat and that she assumed responsibility, that she was beautiful and that we found her beautiful.
And Gena Rowlands, too, a lot.
Agnès Jaoui and her honorary César during the 49th César ceremony.
(Paris, February 23, 2024.) Marechal Aurore / Marechal Aurore/ABACA
On February 23, you received an
honorary
César .
What is the first image that comes to mind when you remember this moment?
There, right away, it’s Jamel.
I see Jamel with his moved face, who told me afterwards that it was the most difficult thing he had to do in his life.
What I want to believe: I know that we were both happy, while knowing that it was a test for both of us.
For what ?
Because we were thinking of Jean-Pierre
(Bacri, disappeared in 2021, Editor's note).
A lot.
And that he was there.
Also read: Jean-Pierre Bacri and Agnès Jaoui, 25 years of love... and addictions
About
him, we know the work of the “Bacri-Jaoui” duo as screenwriters, but you also shone each on your own.
Together, did you consciously take care to never let yourself be “locked in” in the image that your relationship portrayed?
How did it play out between you?
It happened because it was him, because it was me... Obviously, at the start, we talked about his films, his plays, above all.
Even when we were writing together, I was in the complete shadows since he was more famous, older and simply more of a “man”.
But he suffered from it, almost more than me.
Later, apart from the fact that he didn't want to be a director anyway, he was very happy that I was in the spotlight.
He was someone who didn't like having the first role, the leadership.
Being "the man"... He didn't have that ego at all, it made things a lot easier.
And then, we also had areas that were only ours.
For me it was singing: Jean-Pierre liked music, but not so much the music I did.
I also think that we were happy to let ourselves be free, to each do what we wanted to do.
If everyone could understand that to love is not to possess, and that no one belongs to the other, it would still help a lot.