SPIEGEL ONLINE: On the penultimate Friday Georgian Zelimkhan Khangoshvili was murdered in Berlin. Traces to date point to connections between the alleged perpetrator and Russian military intelligence - were you surprised by the case and the suspected background?
Edward Lucas: It did not really surprise me. In Germany, the three major Russian intelligence services FSB, SWR and GRU are widely represented. They are partly active with diplomatic cover, thus at the embassies, but also completely clandestine in the country. I'm fascinated by the case, but the detainee does not look like a professional intelligence officer to me.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Why not, the act does not work like a layman?
Lucas: Because Vadim Sokolov was a bit awkward and got caught. That should not happen to a professional. If he was a GRU officer, he probably would not have found the weapon. However, his real passport with false personal details clearly indicates a Russian secret service in the background.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The passport was issued eleven days before the visa application for travel to France and has no biometric data included. How can something like that happen?
Lucas: The passport, the wrong information, that's all pretty weird. If I were the French intelligence service, I would ask some very sharp questions to the staff of the Embassy in Moscow. The question of a possible helper among the employees must be allowed.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: So far, the Federal Government with public statements and reviews on the case back. Is this restraint appropriate?
Lucas: This visible discomfort of German politics is not surprising to me. I get the impression that they are trying to play it down instead of playing it up. The investigation should have been taken over by federal authorities for a long time. My impression is that not much has happened in Germany.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: What do you mean?
Lucas: In some European countries people have been disappointed for a long time with the hesitant efforts of the Germans towards Russia. Not so much with the operational, intelligence level, but the political.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In your opinion, the Germans are too hesitant?
Lucas: When a Russian spy is unmasked, it often means: Please go home, your posting ends prematurely. Everything is regulated very quietly in Germany. As a result, the Russians are not really taking the country seriously. And if they want to kill a Chechen, they go to Berlin and do it where they believe that nothing will happen.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Is the case of the Russian spouse Heidrun and Andreas Anschlag included, which was arrested about eight years ago and in which the federal government had initially offered an agent exchange?
Lucas: This and more. We have the radioactive traces in Hamburg, in connection with the assassination attempt on Alexander Litvinenko, who was poisoned in London and the case of the NATO spy Herman Simm, who worked for the Russians and the BND.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In all these cases, there were investigations or investigations. Was not that enough?
Lucas: There has to be more prosecution and sanctions. Look, in Estonian prisons there are probably more Russian spies than in the rest of Europe together. Because there is a consistent legal action against the spies. What do you think, what scares more? Sent home or put in a prison?
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In your opinion, how should the Federal Government act in the case of Sokolov?
Lucas: The German policy of appeasement with Putin has failed in my view. Russian spies should be made public and investigations conducted at the highest level. If Russia gets away with Khangoshvili's assassination without consequences, one must ask: who will be the next victim?