SPIEGEL: Turkey has been conducting a military offensive against Kurdish forces in northern Syria for days. Some EU countries have declared an arms embargo on Ankara. Is that enough?
Pistorius: No. The signal to President Erdogan is too weak, the statements of EU foreign ministers disappointing. We have to clearly state what we are dealing with and adapt our measures accordingly.
SPIEGEL: Namely?
Pistorius: This military offensive in Syria has no international legal basis. That's why we have to talk about economic sanctions as ultima ratio. But the tragedy is that the European Union does not play a role in the current conflict in Syria. We have relied on the US, they are now leaving, and Russia has long since become the dominant power factor there. The lamentations about our inaction in Germany and Europe are coming late. If we want to change that, we finally need a common foreign policy.
SPIEGEL: The so-called common foreign policy has degenerated into an empty phrase.
Pistorius: I do not believe that. But a common foreign policy must also be very concrete. We would then have to be ready to take over even very unpleasant tasks. For example, if we negotiate cease-fire agreements, we should be able to monitor them together with others. Unfortunately we are too weak today.
SPIEGEL: Should Germany actively help the Kurds in the region?
Pistorius: Yes. The Kurds in northern Syria are victims of a cynical power politics. The US first used them to fight Islamist terror, although it was always clear that Turkey would never tolerate a PKK-dominated regional state on the border with Turkey. Now, the Kurds are being used by dictator Assad to regain control of northern Syria and stop Turkey. Russia also uses them to increase its power and to repress Iran's influence in Syria. The victims of these power-political strategies are the Kurds, above all the civilian population. The entire European Union should provide aid to the fleeing civilian population. That is urgently needed now. We also urgently need an international initiative to resume negotiations between Turkey and the PKK.
SPIEGEL: Thousands of ISIS fighters are in northern Syria, including more than a hundred from Germany. What happens to you now? Can Germany stop being withdrawn?
Pistorius: Politically, no one wants to take back IS supporters, but there is a legal obligation for German citizens to do so. We can not resist that. After all, we also demand redemption from other states if we deport their nationals. In my view, it is part of the credibility of the German constitutional state that we convict offenders in due process here in Germany. At the same time, however, the safety of the population must have top priority, so the federal and state governments must prepare as best as possible. One thing is clear: there is a danger that ISIS will become stronger again as a result of the Turkish invasion. The Kurdish-led militia must now focus their military force so much on their defense against Turkey that they are threatening to lose control of the detention centers, including hidden IS fighters. For this reason, too, the war must be stopped there immediately.
SPIEGEL: Tens of thousands of civilians have been fleeing since the beginning of the Turkish offensive. Is a new refugee crisis threatening?
Pistorius: War always triggers refugee movements, also and especially in this unstable region. Where people flee is difficult to predict. It is clear that we must prepare ourselves: in particular, we must provide Greece with resources from the European Union for border security and the implementation of the asylum system, and, if need be, we must press ahead with the willing EU Member States to push ahead with the refugee distribution mechanism. Fortunately, there are currently no signs that the already 130,000 refugees are on their way to us. Russia actually seems to be able to stop Turkey's advance through its military presence and at the same time to facilitate an agreement between Assad and the Kurdish fighters. Russia assumes the US role in the region. And again: Europe does not matter. That's the bitter finding.
SPIEGEL: Turkish President Erdogan is blatantly threatening the West to open the doors in case of doubt and to forward the fugitives to Europe. Has Europe trapped in a trap with the 2016 Turkey Agreement?
Pistorius: No, this agreement was necessary and correct. Nevertheless, we must now be careful that the funds are not misappropriated in northern Syria. If necessary, the missing tranche, the visa-free regime and customs improvements must be used as a bargaining chip. But basically, I never understood the criticism of the agreement with Turkey. It was in our German and European interests that Turkey controlled its borders with the Greek islands. Anyone who complains about the bad conditions on Lesvos can not at the same time criticize the agreement with Turkey, because without this agreement the conditions would be much worse.
SPIEGEL: There is still no European mechanism for the distribution of refugees. How to increase the pressure on other EU partners to finally join?
Pistorius: For example, the fact that the lack of solidarity of other countries also affects their financial allocations from the future EU budget. Anyone who refuses to join an integrated asylum system must feel it and, if necessary, lose EU funds. Europe is a binding idea based on solidarity. At the same time, this means that everyone who benefits from the achievements and advantages of Europe must be equally involved in solving common problems.
