The Limited Times

Now you can see non-English news...

Wolfgang Ischinger on North Syria: "Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer deserves recognition"

2019-10-24T14:25:58.161Z


Wolfgang Ischinger, head of the Munich Security Conference, praises Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer for her Syrian advance - and explains why Vladimir Putin could even get involved in it.



SPIEGEL: Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer has proposed an international security zone with German participation in northern Syria. What do you think of the proposal?

Ischinger: It is very good that finally a concrete proposal from Germany is put on the table. We have long enough demanded that Germany must assume more responsibility for security policy. And it is a good sign that NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has honored Mrs Kramp-Karrenbauer's proposal. I hope that this courageous step will initiate a turnaround in German security policy. Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer deserves credit for this.

SPIEGEL: But the coalition partner SPD sees itself duped, Germany's international partners are irritated.

Ischinger: I, too, would have wished that such a proposal be first of all discussed internally in the federal government. Such a project could have been initially worked out in the Federal Security Council, of course, strictly confidential. These include issues such as a UN mandate, the size and composition of a peacekeeping force, its precise objectives, and an exit strategy. In a second step, the Federal Government could have sent emissaries to partners in the EU and NATO, including the US, but also to Moscow to involve them. Only then would you actually go with such a coordinated proposal to the public.

SPIEGEL: So the Minister of Defense has made a proper suggestion dilettantisch?

Ischinger: If she wanted to set an example that Germany lives as a responsible foreign policy designer, then she did it right. If she wanted to have a maximum chance of realizing her proposal, it would have been possible to do something different. This presupposes, however, that in the coalition in militarily relevant issues pull both sides together. And after that it does not look like it at the moment.

REUTERS / Michael Dalder

Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer at Bundeswehr soldiers in Erfurt

SPIEGEL: You think that you can not make more active German foreign policy with the SPD?

Ischinger: I do not want to say that. But Mrs. Kramp-Karrenbauer did this because she feared that her idea would otherwise have been destroyed before she saw the light of day. This shows how urgently needed it is to use the Federal Security Council professionally, especially for such complex projects. He is secretly meeting. What is being advised there remains confidential because the breach of secrets is punishable.

Federal Security

Committee of the Federal Cabinet. He is next to the Chancellor, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Interior, Finance, Justice, Defense, Economics, Development and the head of the Federal Chancellery. The body coordinates security and defense policy , but has been particularly noticed in recent decades in connection with arms exports , which it has to approve.

If Germany demands that the EU speaks with one voice, then we have to start at home. Otherwise we are not really serious. For this reason, the systematic activation and use of the Federal Security Council, which in principle has existed for decades, is necessary and overdue in such foreign policy decision-making processes, including an adequate professional foundation. Not one of our comparable partners is as unsystematic as we are in terms of security policy. We can not and can not afford this anymore, coalition here or here. We live in a high risk world!

SPIEGEL : What are the prospects that the international security zone will actually exist?

Ischinger: The prospects are not exactly rosy, but I certainly see a certain chance. The ten-point paper agreed by the Russian and Turkish presidents will not solve the conflict in northern Syria on a permanent basis. It's not much better than the Pence Erdogan paper and leaves too many questions unanswered. It lacks relevant actors such as the UN Security Council, on which Russia has always attached great importance, it lacks the Syrian government, the Kurds, the US, the EU. Also the explosive question, who should pay the reconstruction of Syria, is not mentioned in the paper. I am sure that this bill will be presented at the end of the EU. That in turn gives us a lever: if we are already being asked to pay, we should make it a condition that the United Nations legitimize the further course of action in the Syrian conflict.

Sergei Chirikov / DPA

President Erdogan, Putin at their meeting with Russian Sochi on October 22

SPIEGEL: Why should Putin get involved in involving Europeans in Syria?

Ischinger: The deployment in Syria is not without risk for the Russian military. The "Islamic State" is not dead! The Russian-Turkish patrols that Putin and Erdogan have now agreed are a high-risk mission. Russia takes over, at least in the longer term. I believe that Vladimir Putin may have an interest in reducing the risk of his own troops getting caught in the crossfire. Assad is, as you know in Moscow exactly, not a reliable partner. In the Kremlin the willingness to pass on the buck could increase. Kramp-Karrenbauer's proposal to share responsibility internationally could do just that by delegating the whole thing to the United Nations. Assigning the UN Security Council to guard such a protection zone would have the advantage for Putin that he still has a veto right.

SPIEGEL: The proposal would mean that Turkey, which is in violation of international law, invaded Syria and worked very closely with Russia, which ensured the survival of the Assad regime. Do our principles allow us to enter such a close alliance with Putin and Erdogan?

Ischinger: If there were a mandate from the United Nations, such a mission would be legitimate. And as for Assad, yes, we must swallow the bitter pill and acknowledge that our call to "Assad must go" was unsuccessful because we did not do anything for seven years to stop him. This is taking its revenge now. The mass murderer is in the saddle.

more on the subject

Kramp-Karrenbauer and the Syria-SchutzzoneStolen on the world stage

SPIEGEL: Would the EU not retroactively endorse the illegal intervention of Turkey in Syria with this proposal?

Ischinger: On the contrary, a UN mission would permanently end the ongoing Turkish intervention in Syria. Incidentally, we can not refuse Turkey to protect itself against war and terror at its own borders, in its neighboring country. Turkey carries an exorbitant refugee burden. And we must prevent a lasting crisis in relations with our NATO partner Turkey, and the proposal of Mrs Kramp-Karrenbauer could also contribute to that. In that case, it would be best if the UN peacekeeping force consists essentially of nations that have no interests of their own in the region.

SPIEGEL: What would that mean for the Europeans?

Ischinger: Of course we would have to be ready to participate. Such a protection zone would also include aerial surveillance of a no-fly zone. For example, I could imagine that the German Air Force could take part in it.

SPIEGEL: If Germany made such a far-reaching proposal, would not Germany be prepared to provide ground forces?

Ischinger: Yes, that too. The Federal Government must not back down now. She must be ready to participate in a Blue Helm force. Otherwise the impression would arise again: Germany pinches. That can not happen.

SPIEGEL: The UN has historically had bad experiences with protected areas, for example during the Bosnian war. How dangerous would such an assignment be and how big is the risk of failure?

Ischinger: There are no dangerous military operations. Otherwise one could immediately send the technical aid organization. The UN troop in the Bosnian war had no robust mandate and was therefore militarily not able to act, indeed hardly capable of self-defense. We learned from that. In my opinion, no German Minister of Defense would support the deployment of the Bundeswehr in Syria if the mandate were not sufficiently robust. Our soldiers must be allowed to shoot if threatened. Without ifs and buts, and if necessary even before you are shot at yourself.

Stimmenfang # 116 - Chronicle of a breakdown series: Why do Kramp-Karrenbauer pass so many mistakes?

  • Subscribe to
    • Apple podcasts
    • Google podcasts
    • Spotify
    • Deezer
    • Alexa
    • RSS

All podcasts

SPIEGEL: Who exactly would the protection zone protect? How could a further expulsion of the Kurds be prevented?

Ischinger: First of all, that would be a disengagement zone. For example, it could ensure that the Kurdish civilian population can stay in their territories. At the same time, it could guarantee Erdogan that the PKK can not threaten Turkey with military or terrorist help from YPG.

SPIEGEL: What does it mean for German foreign policy if the Defense Minister's proposal fails?

Ischinger: I hope this will at least open our foreign policy debate, in which the military has been largely taboo. I am fundamentally very skeptical of military intervention. But in this situation in Syria, it honors German foreign policy when it works for an internationally mandated peacekeeping force.

SPIEGEL: The Munich Security Conference is organizing a high-level meeting in the Middle East crisis region in Egypt and Qatar next weekend. What do you hope for?

Ischinger: We could not have chosen the time better. There has never been so much crisis and uncertainty in the region. We bring together European and Middle Eastern high-ranking government officials and non-official interlocutors, even from countries that usually do not talk to one another. At the last security conference in Munich in February, both the Egyptian President personally and the Emir of Qatar invited us to hold meetings there. Egypt and Qatar have problems with each other, do not have diplomatic relations, so we start the meeting in Cairo and continue in Qatar, each with participants who would not be welcome elsewhere. In Doha, for example, the Iranian Foreign Minister, who could hardly be invited to Cairo, will take part. We want to demonstratively build bridges of dialogue and crisis prevention.

Source: spiegel

All news articles on 2019-10-24

You may like

Trends 24h

Latest

© Communities 2019 - Privacy

The information on this site is from external sources that are not under our control.
The inclusion of any links does not necessarily imply a recommendation or endorse the views expressed within them.