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(CNN) - In a significant change, an important US diplomat He changed his testimony to political trial investigators to admit a quid pro quo that links US aid to Ukraine with an investigation into President Donald Trump's political rival.
- What does the expression 'quid pro quo' mean and what does Trump have to do with the political trial?
The US ambassador in the European Union, Gordon Sondland, sent a three-page addition to his testimony to the commissions on Monday, saying he had recalled a September 1 conversation in which he told an important assistant to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that he helps her Security was linked to investigations into former Vice President Joe Biden and the 2016 elections.
"Now I remember talking to Mr. (Andriy) Yermak individually, where I said that the resumption of US aid would probably not happen until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption declaration we had been discussing for many weeks," Sondland said.
Sondland's new testimony, which was included in the public communication of his transcript of the deposition behind closed doors on Tuesday, adds to the evidence of the Democrats that the president connected the freezing of US security assistance to Ukraine to the investigations about Biden, as well as to the piracy of the servers of the National Democratic Commission during the 2016 elections, which cuts the heart of his political trial against Trump. The commissions have heard from several witnesses, including the main US diplomat. UU. in Ukraine, Bill Taylor, and National Security Council advisor Tim Morrison, who have testified that Ukrainian investigations were linked to US $ 400 million in US security assistance. UU. and an individual meeting between Trump and Zelensky.
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The Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Supervision Commissions of the House of Representatives published on Tuesday the transcripts of the Sondland statements and former US special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, as they moved into the public phase of their trial investigation politician.
In his statement last month, Sondland stated that he ultimately did not know why aid was withheld from Ukraine. But he told lawmakers that President Rudy Giuliani's personal lawyer's efforts to persuade Ukraine to open an investigation into Trump's political rivals "became more insidious" as time went by, and suggested that Giuliani's efforts could have been illegal, according to the transcript of the statement.
Sondland said it would be "inappropriate" for Giuliani to push Ukrainians to investigate Biden or get involved in the 2020 elections. When asked if it was illegal, Sondland said: "I'm not a lawyer, but I suppose I am."
In his own testimony, Volker said that the Ukrainians had asked to contact Giuliani, whose efforts have been described by other witnesses as a hidden foreign policy outside the channels of the State Department, because they believed that “that flow of information would reach the President. ”He said he was surprised and worried about what was said in the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky.
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Even so, Volker's testimony also gave Trump and his allies what to talk about, because they have been pushing for publication. Volker told lawmakers he did not know of any "quid pro quo" that links US military assistance with the announcement of Ukrainian investigations into Biden and the Democrats.
“You asked me what conversations I had about that quid pro quo, etc.,” said Volker. "None, because I didn't know there was a quid pro quo."
He testified that after learning of the retention of US military aid, he had worked to resume assistance, and that he had never believed it was related to Trump's desire for a Biden investigation.
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Volker also said that Ukrainians did not know about the interruption of military assistance until after the Trump administration stopped pressuring them to announce an investigation into the Biden. This testimony reinforces a key principle of Trump's defense: that there was no "quid pro quo" with Ukraine because the new government in Kiev did not know that military aid was being withheld.
"To my knowledge, the news about a suspension of security assistance did not enter the circles of the Ukrainian government, as the current Foreign Minister, then diplomatic advisor, told me until the end of August," said Volker. "And by the time we had that, we had abandoned the idea of even looking at a statement."
White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement that Sondland had testified that he did not know why Ukraine's help was frozen, and that Volker “confirms that there could not have been a quid pro quo because Ukrainians did not They knew about military aid at the time. ”
But Volker seemed to ignore that on September 1, Sondland had told Zelensky's political adviser that security assistance and the announcement of a public investigation were, in fact, linked.
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House of Representatives Democrats have now published transcripts of four of the 13 closed-door statements they have made so far that they are addressing public hearings, which could begin as early as next week, in the trial investigation politician.
Volker and Sondland, along with Energy Secretary Rick Perry, called themselves the "three friends" who managed politics between the United States and Ukraine. Text messages provided to Congress by Volker, who resigned last month while the Ukrainian scandal was taking place, show his exchanges with Giuliani and senior diplomats of the State Department. He denied taking part in any effort to dig up the political dirt in Biden, but the texts revealed that he had spoken with Ukrainian officials about the launching of politically charged investigations.
Democrats seek clarifications from Sondland
The change of Sondland's testimony this week comes after the Democrats had asked him to clarify his testimony behind closed doors after his statement on October 17. Sondland's initial testimony seems to have been contradicted by at least two other witnesses, according to CNN reports and published statements.
At the heart of the discrepancy - which his clarification seems to be trying to address - is whether Sondland ever explicitly linked the actions of the United States with Ukraine's requests to initiate investigations into the Biden, and if he had suspended visits to the White House or US military aid a potential quid pro quo.
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In his October testimony, Sondland said the president had told him directly that "there is no quid pro quo," which led him to tell Taylor that his suggestion that US aid was linked to investigations was inaccurate.
Sondland explained that in a September 9 phone call with Trump, the president said: “I don't want anything. I don't want a quid pro quo. I want Zelensky to do the right thing. ”
"And I said: 'What does that mean?' And he said: 'I want him to do what he did.' And that was the end of the conversation. I wouldn't say he hung up on me, but it was almost as if he hung up on me, ”Sondland added.
Sondland told the House committees that he eventually realized that Ukraine's help stopped to attract corruption investigations in Ukraine, and finally realized that the investigations were linked to the Biden.
"Finally, at some point I made the Biden-Burisma connection, and then the transcript was published," Sondland said during his testimony. He said he could not remember specific dates, and that for some time he had not made the connection between Bidens and Burisma, the Ukrainian natural gas company for which Hunter Biden sat on the board.
Sondland described "a progression," beginning with a meeting on May 23 and "ending at the end of the line when the transcript of the call came out."
"He started talking with Rudy, then others talk with Rudy," he explained. “Corruption was mentioned. Then, as time went by, and, once again, I cannot specify the dates, let us make the Ukrainians give a statement about corruption. And then, no, corruption is not enough, we need to talk about the 2016 elections and the investigations of Burisma. ”
Sondland's testimony includes other discrepancies with Trump officials who appeared before the commission. His description of a July 10 meeting with then national security adviser John Bolton, for example, disagrees with the testimony of former White House adviser in Russia, Fiona Hill, who said the meeting was "abruptly terminated. and that angry words were used. ”
Sondland said that was contrary to his memory, and wondered if "he had slept something."
Sondland also described his work with Giuliani which was documented in the text messages that Democrats published last month among US diplomats, Giuliani and Zelensky's aide.
Sondland discussed how Giuliani and others' efforts to incite Ukraine to make a public announcement about their investigation would need to be on television for Trump to see.
"I think this was the press statement that had become a kind of interview that President Zelensky would give to a television station," Sondland told the commissions.
When asked in which network the statement should be made, he replied: "I don't know, but something President Trump would obviously see." He then mentioned Fox and his host Tucker Carlson, which caused laughter in the commission room, according to the transcript.
Sondland acknowledged in the testimony that he had spoken with Perry before his statement to "refresh my memory." And he said he had also talked briefly with the president during a meeting at the White House, where Trump told him to "go tell the truth."
The former US envoy lights up the key meeting
Volker's testimony provided more details about his efforts to work with Giuliani, Sondland and the Ukrainians amid Ukraine's drive to open an investigation and the freezing of US security aid.
Volker testified that the retention of aid "seemed unusual." He said he realized the suspension of aid on July 18, before the Trump-Zelensky call, but did not discover the reason why the aid had frozen.
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"No one gave a reason why," said Volker.
He said that at a meeting on May 23 with Trump in which the president ordered his aides to "talk to Rudy" about Ukraine, Volker and other administration officials recommended that Trump schedule a meeting of the Oval Office with the newly elected Ukrainian president. But Trump was skeptical.
"Everyone is corrupt, they are terrible people," Volker recalled that Trump said. "I don't want to spend time with that."
Volker said he told Zelensky and another Ukrainian official about the "Giuliani factor," that the president's personal lawyer was amplifying a "negative narrative" about Ukraine.
“I explained it to President Zelensky and the Head of Presidential Administration, Andriy Bohdan, who was standing next to him. And I explained that I thought there is a negative narrative about Ukraine that is counteracting all the good things it is doing, and that we are officially communicating and that Rudy Giuliani is amplifying this, ”said Volker.
Still, Volker stated that he never felt that Giuliani did anything against the interests of the United States, breaking up with other witnesses like Hill. In fact, Volker believed that Giuliani was helping to promote American interests, and that's why he put Ukrainians in touch.
Volker said he thought it was "probably very useful" that he had mentioned this to Zelensky before his call with Trump on July 25.
After Volker and Sondland proposed that Zelensky announce an investigation mentioning Burisma and the 2016 elections, Volker said he advised Ukrainians to launch a public announcement after learning that the Justice Department had not requested polls about the elections. of 2016 and Burisma, despite what Giuliani was promoting.
"Died. I mean, nobody. Once we began to see a rhythm of commitment to Ukraine, we first had the feeling that Rudy was not going to be convinced that it meant anything and, therefore, convey a positive message to the President if he did not say Burisma and 2016, ”he said Volker “I agreed with the Ukrainians that they shouldn't do it, and in fact I told them to just leave it, wait until they have their own attorney general. Let's work on substantive issues like this, security assistance and everything. Let's do that. So we let it fall. ”
Volker testified that he had personally told Giuliani that the source of many of those theories "was not credible." Giuliani has spent much of this year spreading theories about Joe Biden and the Democrats sold by former Ukrainian attorney general Yuriy Lutsenko.
CNN's Jennifer Hansler, Katelyn Polantz, Zachary Cohen, Kevin Liptak, Alex Rogers, Philip Mattingly, Lauren Fox and Manu Raju contributed to this report.
Political trialUkraine