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Podcast "Voices": "If I tell my friends that I have a friend from the East, what do they think?"

2019-11-07T17:34:49.233Z


He was born in 1989 in the deepest West. She, 1985 in Karl-Marx-Stadt. Today they are a couple and he says: "The country is divided like never before". Listen to the stories of the "Generation Mauerfall" in the new podcast.



Voice # 120 - "Split as never" - how the generation of Wallfall sees the country

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Since the fall of the wall, the first generation has grown up. Anyone born in 1989 or later knows Germany only as a united country. But does the "Generation Fall of the Berlin Wall" make the country so true? That's what the new episode is about. We asked our podcast listeners: How do you experience united Germany?

We have received an answer again and again: "Recently, I have thought about whether it really is a Germany or whether Germany in the minds of the people is not still separate," says us, for example, voice listener Klara , And listener Aaron finds: "There has been a lapse in recent times in the search for reconciliation."

We also visited an East-West couple: Oliver and Louise, he from the west, she from the east. In the year of the 30th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, they received a "reunification child". They tell how their love has changed their prejudices about East and West.

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You will find "Stimmenfang - der Politik-Podcast" every Thursday on SPIEGEL ONLINE ( just hit the red play button above ) and on podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Deezer or Soundcloud. On the way, on the way to work, in sports: You can hear our new audio format wherever you want and when you want. Subscribe to our free podcast "Voices Catch" to not miss a episode.

You can either hear "Voices Catching" through the player in this article or download it to your smartphone, tablet or computer. So you can play it anytime - even if you're offline.

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The podcast as a text to read

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The complete transcript

[00:00:02] Yasemin Yüksel Welcome to vote in the politics podcast of SPIEGEL. I am Yasemin Yüksel. These days, the fall of the Wall is the 30th anniversary. And because we know that many of our voice-deaf hearers are 30 years or younger, we recently invited you to join an episode and send us WhatsApp news.

[00:00:20] Listener Andreas Yes, hello, hello Andreas Sommer is my name. I'll get in touch with you because I've heard your last podcast and your call to be able to contact you if you were born and raised in a reunified Germany.

[00:00:34] Listener Klara Hello dear voting team. I am Klara. I am from Hamburg and study in Stuttgart and I was born in 1998. That means long after reunification.

[00:00:45] Listener Lukas Hello, dear voice editorial staff. This is Lukas, I'm 18 years old. One should actually think that for me East and West Germany is actually exactly the same. But sometimes it seems to me that somehow there is still a wall.

[00:00:59] Listener Juliane My name is Juliane, I was born in East Germany in '88, as they say, in Rostock. Actually, I always call myself North German - this East-West ... But that's exactly what it's all about.

[00:01:11] Yasemin Yüksel Yes, that is what this episode is all about: the so-called Generation Wallfall and its view of Germany. Do those who are today 30 or younger and only know the inner German border through books experience the country automatically as one? The answers to this question come from you today, our podcast listeners. And I've visited a voice-over-listener, Oliver, at home for this episode, getting to know his very personal East-West relationship.

[00:01:35] Listener Oliver If I tell my friends that I have a girlfriend from the East, what do they think?

[00:01:41] Yasemin Yüksel Today, Oliver has a baby with this friend from the East. I can tell you that much in advance. Here we come straight away. But here is Klara, 21, and from Hamburg.

[00:01:51] Listener Klara I have always regarded Germany as a Germany. During my schooldays, I dealt intensively with the GDR era. I heard many stories from my dad who danced on the wall when she was knocked down and always drove to Berlin with his parents. Only in recent times have I ever thought more about whether it really is a Germany or whether in the minds of the people of Germany is not still separate. This is mainly because I am very surprised about this great approval for the AfD in the former East German states, because I just can not understand that at all.

[00:02:35] Yasemin Yüksel And with this lack of understanding Klara is not alone. In almost every message they sent us to our question, it's about the AfD and their electoral successes in the East. Here is, for example, Aron, 19 years and from Wiesbaden in Hesse.

[00:02:47] Listener Aaron Especially in West Germany, there is also this mentality, which is certainly wrong, but still widespread. This thought that billions have just been poured over the soli in East Germany and everything you get back in gratitude is just xenophobia. This is of course so wrong, but still something that is often thought. There has also been a lot of missing lately for reconciliation. Giving people in East Germany really better prospects, or at least adjusting their pensions reasonably. I think that would be the only way to reduce these resentments bit by bit. Because only then can one counteract this increasing polarization in my eyes.

[00:03:27] Yasemin Yüksel Our listeners are also not free from resentment. Who is that? And so a second thread runs through all the news we have received. And that's about the distance between East and West. The fact that 30 years after the fall of the Wall, so little is known about each other. Listener Julian, 29, and from Bavaria, who says of himself, for example, that he was really blind with blinkers:

[00:03:47] Listener Julian Well, the first time I moved out of Bavaria, I had no idea about Germany, I have to say. In northern Italy and Austria, I was better acquainted with cities and regions than, say, north of Nuremberg. I really mean that. And if you look at German history, for example, the younger especially, how incredibly important because Central Germany or East Germany, how much more important that was actually for the younger German history than just the Kingdom of Bavaria. The self-perception is a very different one.

[00:04:19] Yasemin Yüksel Julian did something about his blinders and left with a friend for a road trip through the East. And something similar has also made Andreas. He was born in 1980, lives in Munich and started a marathon in Saxony.

[00:04:32] Listener Andreas We had booked extra for this, that was not an alternative date, because we had not got a place anywhere else, but we wanted to go to Dresden. I wanted to go to Dresden because I had never seen it before and make my own contribution to setting my own prejudices a bit. When we were in Dresden, the city surprised me a lot. Well, I did not imagine it as beautiful as it actually was. Exactly what experiences, I think, needs humanity - at least West Germans - more to open a bit more for East Germany and just to see that not everything is bad.

[00:05:13] Yasemin Yüksel So - and if you ask yourself now: Did the people of the vote really only select people from West Germany who are talking about prejudices and the right-wing drift in the East? That gives a very one-sided picture. Yes and no. For one thing, with such a series of listeners, we never raise the demand for a representative survey. What we do is more of a snapshot. On the other hand, only 20 percent of the listener mail you sent us came from East Germans. One of them is Juliane, the woman from Rostock, whom we have already heard briefly.

[00:05:41] Listener Juliane Just when I lived in Berlin - I lived relatively close to the Berlin Wall, I used to skate there, and that was also the memorial site for the last Mauertoten - and somehow every time I feel like it but somehow a cold, cold shiver ran over his back. Because the story is somehow very close, although I have never experienced it. The topic does not let me go. I think it's super exciting and I'm curious how others may experience it at my age.

[00:06:09] Yasemin Yüksel And we, here in the editorial office, were particularly excited when the news from Oliver arrived, because in it somehow everything happened: East and West, closeness and distance and a surprising turnaround.

[00:06:19] Listener Oliver I was born and raised for the first 20 years in the deepest West, in Krefeld, on the Lower Rhine, near the Dutch border. I was socialized in the sense that an insane distance was always built up to the east. It was always talked not only about "the East" and "the Ossis", but also holiday paths never went further than Hesse or even with the grandparents to Schleswig-Holstein. My first trip to Berlin was only 12 and then with my grandparents. That was the first time practically "over there" and then really ... Then my grandfather said: "Yes, boy, we turn off the highway, look right, left, what this looks like." So basically a bit like disaster tourism - that's what it felt like in the aftermath.

[00:07:06] Yasemin Yüksel Oliver was born in '89 and was born in December, just a few weeks after the fall of the Berlin Wall. At the age of 20, he is studying in Frankfurt am Main.

[00:07:14] Listener Oliver The real point in my vita is that a few years after I was in Frankfurt, I met a girl, which actually comes from Karl-Marx-Stadt and was born there - so practical is a Karl Marx city dweller. And we have a six-month-old daughter together, so practically in the year of the 30th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, a reunited child was born, bringing together families who would never have come together without the fall of the Berlin Wall and without this baby and our little family.

[00:07:50] Yasemin Yüksel Oliver's story, his East-West relationship, his reuniting child, his perspective, his girlfriend's - we wanted to know more about that here in the newsroom, so I asked Oliver if I liked him and his Visit girlfriend and meet for an interview. The two said yes and so I went on a train to Hesse a few days ago and have visited Oliver, Louise and her now ten-month-old daughter Hermione near Frankfurt. When I got to the top, I was quite out of breath, because the fifth floor and so on. I then came to a nicely furnished apartment. The baby had just woken up from nap and was sitting on the floor in the living room. And yes, you will hear it in this episode from time to time.

[00:08:39] Listener Louise She feels, I think, turned off. But no matter, maybe she's still nibbling a bit.

[00:08:46] Yasemin Yüksel Louise is four years older than Oliver, she is born in '85. A few days after my visit, her parental leave ended and she is now back in her job as a civil engineer. Oliver will now take care of the now nine-month-old daughter. And Louise, how was that when you met Oli, a West German? Did that matter? How was it? Tell!

[00:09:06] Listener Louise For me it did not matter. So I have to say honestly. I did not think about that at all. I do not know what Oliver is saying when asked.

[00:09:16] Yasemin Yüksel Yes, I'll ask him right now, I'm curious.

[00:09:16] Listener Louise But I thought it was nice. I knew that the people from the region are very open-minded, very humorous people. And you noticed that with him immediately. I do not know if he knew from where I came from. I do not know when I told him, but I do not think you heard it.

[00:09:34] Yasemin Yüksel No, he does not. Oliver thinks at the beginning for a while, Louise came from Berlin. Their Saxon accent can hardly be heard or not at all. And from Chemnitz - or in GDR times Karl Marx City, so Louise's homeland - Oliver has at most a rough idea.

[00:09:48] Listener Oliver When I found out a bit more about it, it was a bit exciting, because I only knew Chemnitz by hearsay and knew that a Karl Marx head stood there and knew that Karl Marx City was called, which was then a bit interesting. It actually happened that some days later, when everything was still fresh, I thought about it. If I now tell my friends that I have a friend from the East, what do they think? Was really serious just such a consideration. It was not like saying: Okay, if they say something negative now, I do not like them anymore, it's rather like that: weird. Because somehow in the first years of study, this image was still so present: OK, we do not have so much to do with the East. And my friends even from Krefeld times are always a very distant role. If I arrive with one from the East now, what do they think?

[00:10:45] Yasemin Yüksel And what would they have thought? Or what could have thought?

[00:10:48] Listener Oliver What could you have thought? What's he doing with that? That's it ... That probably sounds totally absurd, it's also totally absurd and the train of thought was not that bad. But it was more like this: Okay, a little weird.

[00:11:07] Yasemin Yüksel Louise, how is that for you now when you hear that?

[00:11:09] Listener Louise It is not strange. I can imagine that there are many parts in Germany where one wonders: Uiuiui, one from East Germany, who probably comes from Saxony, is a hairdresser and speaks Saxon. And you really can not show that. I and my friends or generations know, I believe, how the opinion in the West, in the Old States, is ordered to us.

[00:11:31] Yasemin Yüksel And what do you call for reactions when you say: Yes, I was born in Karl-Marx-Stadt.

[00:11:39] Listener Louise "Aha, interesting, Karl-Marx-Stadt, that's Chemnitz right now". And bad things are: It's still the case today that you get ridiculed when you say you're from Saxony. The more people are surprised then that there can be Saxons like me who do not speak anymore, so you just can not hear that anymore.

[00:11:57] Yasemin Yüksel The first generation to grow up after the fall of the Berlin Wall thus still lives with distances between East and West. And for Oliver, who grows up in the extreme west of the Republic on the border with Holland, there are mainly geographical reasons.

[00:12:11] Listener Oliver Up to the North Sea and on Sunday mornings there and to spend the Sunday on the beach, that was a lot, much closer than actually one in their own country.

[00:12:19] Yasemin Yüksel The older he gets, there is also a social distance to the east.

[00:12:23] Listener Oliver Weil secondary school who had such a kind of naive self-confidence. That was marked by, I say now exaggerated, hockey, tennis club members, dentists, doctors, professors, not without reason the reputation of a big-name school in quotation marks, so classic really La Martina Polo T-shirt, sailing school. So, you can imagine that wonderfully figurative. And that's really how it was. The blatant was also there, that then went into this self-confidence of the students, my still close friends. First, there was no view to the east. Since we were the most important, there was the most interesting Dusseldorf, Cologne, Malle, youth trip to Spain. And there it was not now somehow times to Leipzig on a nice city trip.

[00:13:17] Yasemin Yüksel You had others not only geographical, but also social, emotional points of reference that were outside of Germany, but closer to you in your world, so to speak in your everyday life than those who are in your own country, a few hundred kilometers away.

[00:13:30] Listener Oliver Definitiv, yes.

[00:13:31] Yasemin Yüksel And what do you think, why was that?

[00:13:33] Listener Oliver Because I did not know it. I did not know it.

[00:13:35] Yasemin Yüksel At the age of 18, Oliver has neither geographic nor emotional on his own map. At 18, Louise has the West in view, at least Berlin. She pulls out of Chemnitz as a young adult, into the capital.

[00:13:47] Listener Louise I have decided to go to Berlin because the lack of prospects for me personally, not for everyone else - I do not want to speak for that - was quite big, because I had a little bit of plans. I really wanted to travel and then started an apprenticeship in Potsdam. During that time I lived with my father in Berlin, he is from Berlin and then studied and then came to Frankfurt for the job. I've only been here three years, three and a half years.

[00:14:13] Yasemin Yüksel Can you tell me, what were your first points of contact? So to speak, with West Germany?

[00:14:19] Listener Louise Honestly, the points of contact were pretty early, even in the family. It was often talked about as well. Primarily often about what was good in East Germany, which is still the case today. It is still described as positive. However, there are many things that are negative. At that time it was mostly "the Wessi" in itself. That was just ... that was stupid.

[00:14:43] Yasemin Yüksel Tell me, why was the Wessi itself stupid from the point of view of those you are about to tell?

[00:14:48] It's still the same as today. He takes the people away. We have the jobs are difficult, there are somehow Wessis ... I say even now exaggerated "Wessi", because it was actually called so, in our home too, maybe not in all of us at home - not my parents to hear that. And the perspectives became less and less. It was just negative that the borders were suddenly open. Before, everything was much better. Everyone had a job. Everyone had a perspective, everyone worked together for the people. Of course, that was also a total economy of shortage and now, exaggeratedly, you could buy jeans and CDs and listen to the music you want to hear and read books that you were not allowed to read before, that's kind of a bit different pushed into the background.

[00:15:36] Yasemin Yüksel At the age of 30 Louise finishes her studies and starts to work in Berlin as a civil engineer. Her company sends her to Hesse for a project, and there she stays, because in May 2016, Oliver, who is now a city geographer, and Louise get to know each other in Frankfurt in a pub. How has the image of the old or the new federal states changed for you by the fact that you now had such intensive personal contact with someone from the West or from the East?

[00:16:04] Listener Oliver So firstly I got to know the new federal states or explicitly Saxony and Chemnitz, not only how it looks there, how beautiful it is there, actually beautiful in the landscape, the city has its charms. But also a lot, which I understand better.

[00:16:22] Yasemin Yüksel What, for example?

[00:16:22] Listener Oliver Politics. So not now that I understand politics, but get a certain sense of it, what are worries, why do many local people still speak, as Louise said earlier, about the GDR? What are the problems on the ground? We have a family connection to it. It's our family now. But next to that, if you look at the political component, it's actually an example-I'm always saying that and Louise'll certainly shake your head-but: On the very first day we were in Chemnitz. We arrived in the evening, in the dark. The next morning we were at a wedding in a castle near Chemnitz and the first people who came and came to us wearing a Thor Steinar T-shirt. I knew that only in the context of football matches in West Germany. And on the second day we were at the Stadtfest in Chemnitz and I saw the biggest AFD stand. I have never seen such a big stand until then and afterwards. And this presence of the political right or the right spirit, if I want to call it that, was a bit shocking, because it was not just that it was told, but that you saw it. And that's something that keeps me busy today. I would disconnect between getting to know each other and becoming acquainted with the region.

[00:17:47] Yasemin Yüksel Louise, this episode that Oli has now told. How do you remember that? He said that you will shake your head right now ...

[00:17:55] Listener Louise For me it's really not a new picture. That's nothing new to me. For me it came right up the first time when I was 13, 14. We know it from classmates, the bigger brothers. It often happened that they were boys, male classmates and with their brothers who have the right spirit. To what extent that was now very pronounced, is questionable. In any case, they have worn it outward in terms of technology. And that's why this picture is not new to me, that people try to dress me with their political outward appearance. Recently, I met with a friend who is half Vietnamese, who does not live in Chemnitz anymore. And she told me that in the past she was often beaten up by other girls and boys because of her looks.

[00:18:49] Yasemin Yüksel While Oli and Louise are having their first summer together, introducing each other to their families, and these two people are getting closer to each other privately, something is breaking apart in the country from 2015/2016. The line of confrontation, "we from here" against those who supposedly do not belong to Germany. In Freital, Heidenau, Clausnitz it comes to right-wing violence, to xenophobic attacks on refugees, to protests against planned accommodation for asylum seekers. All this happens in West Germany. But in relation to the population there are more racist attacks in the East. And finally, Louise's hometown of Chemnitz is in the center, because there in August 2018 a right mob moves through the city, after the German Daniel H. had been killed by a now convicted Syrian killed. What has that done to you, these events? How do you react to that?

[00:19:40] Listener Oliver Angry. And not against the foreigners, but about the people ... You see, my voice breaks something, because that excites me very much! It bothers me a lot because I just do not understand that, even though it may make you feel worse off, it makes you feel like people are violently quoted, others are rushing, maybe violent, or something similar. Absolutely no understanding; makes me very angry!

[00:20:09] Yasemin Yüksel Louise, after August 2018, has anything changed for you, as born in Chemnitz? Reactions ...?

[00:20:18] Listener Louise Yes, I've always been ... well, I've never denied that I'm from Chemnitz and I'm standing by. On the one hand, it has made me infinitely sad, of course, on the other hand, I'm a bit proud that so much resistance comes from such a small town - a lot with music, and I have an incredible number of friends still there, and they all stand behind it, go to all these concerts, "We are more" and everything that happened there. That makes me proud. If one says now, one comes from Chemnitz, then it is not necessarily always said: "Oh, there are so many rights", but it is also said: "Oh, there come power club, now the many concerts against the Have made marches ". And that's really nice to hear, because both sides are seen as well. That makes me happy.

[00:21:08] Listener Louise Rage and incomprehension to Oliver - proud of the protests against Louise right. At the point we came in conversation then on our initial question: How united this first generation of young adults, born after the fall of the Wall, the country actually experienced? The majority of our listeners had answered the question rather skeptically. Here are some more WhatsApp messages.

[00:21:30] Listeners My impression is that Germany is very divided at the moment. And I have more and more the feeling that Germany is less and less a Germany because it splits itself up somehow. If you look at a map of the AFD election results, then you can clearly see how the East is colored deep blue, while the West is just as light blue. And then one wonders as a West German, how can that be? I think it's an incredibly exciting topic, what you're working on right now. One can still read the border East-West in many areas of life on many key figures still. And I think it's a super important topic that you talk about.

[00:22:09] Yasemin Yüksel How do you see Oliver - in the 30th year after the fall of the Berlin Wall? Is the Federal Republic, has the country come to an agreement?

[00:22:15] Listener Oliver Maybe the differences between East and West, the conflicts are bigger than ever. In my thirty years living in this country or living in Europe, the difference between East and West has never been so great in terms of the political framework, the ditch never been so great, the split never so great.

[00:22:37] Yasemin Yüksel Oli says he comes from a very political household. In 2009, he voted for the first time in a federal election. But in conversation he also remembers scenes from the 2002 election campaign with the then CSU chancellor candidate Edmund Stoiber. Perhaps it is because of their different background that Louise answers the question of unity in the country quite differently.

[00:22:56] Listener Louise I find it very exciting that you get the political situation in the foreground when you hear this question because it is important for me to understand each other and to feel that we are all Germans no matter where we are from. That is in the foreground for me, and I mean that. This has improved for me personally over the years. If you think about it, if you do not talk about politics, we are all ... It does not matter if I come from Saxony, whether Oli from North Rhine-Westphalia comes or it does not matter. There is no limit for me.

[00:23:24] Yasemin Yüksel Oliver and Louise are not just part of the "Generation Unity", they are also the young adults who have grown up with only one chancellor. And so we talked about Angela Merkel at some point.

[00:23:35] Listener Oliver Her chancellorship, in my opinion, is already very much influenced by the years after 2015. So she did a great deal for the country, for the continent, in principle for the world, because she did something that was human. However, it has opened trenches, and they have openly revealed the disunity of the country in my very personal eyes. Also for people for whom perhaps these extreme right-wing sentiments were not so obvious. Especially for people from West Germany.

[00:24:07] Yasemin Yüksel On October 3rd, Angela Merkel said something about the state of unity on the occasion of the celebrations on October 3rd. I brought that with you once. I'll play it for you:

[00:24:16] Angela Merkel After all, after 29 years of German reunification, the majority of East Germans in the Federal Republic feels that they are second class citizens, as representative surveys show. According to that, less than 38 percent of East Germans consider reunification to have been successful. For people under 40, it is only about 20 percent. Less than half are satisfied with democracy in Germany.

[00:24:44] Yasemin Yüksel Maybe here.What can you do with it? Louise likes it first, or as you like.

[00:24:50] Listener Louise Puh, yes, I'm surprised at these results. I did not think so now.

[00:24:57] Listener Oliver It's hard numbers, tough statements. Just the last statement that people are not satisfied with democracy, makes me almost stunned. Because what is your alternative? The alternative is not a blue party in the sense of what you can choose. You can also choose democratically. Due to this. What do people want? It does or makes me a bit baffled 30 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, over the topic we're talking about.

[00:25:27] Yasemin Yüksel And at the very end we made a bridge to Helmut Kohl, the chancellor of the unit, and together we watched an old television address. On the eve of October 3, 1990, Helmut Kohl held a televised speech and at that time he said, among other things:

[00:25:43] Helmut Kohl We also want to be good neighbors inside. Open-mindedness for one's neighbor, respect for the dissenters and solidarity with our foreign fellow citizens are also part of this. Our liberal democracy must be characterized by diversity, tolerance and solidarity. We have to prove solidarity among ourselves, especially as Germans. Before us - and everyone knows this - is a difficult route. We want to go this way together. If we stick together and are willing to sacrifice, we have every chance of a mutual success.

[00:26:28] Yasemin Yüksel Did it work, what Helmut Kohl spent as a motto at the time or not?

[00:26:33] Listener Oliver No. It would have been nice if it was the same. This is actually a great guide that he gives there for common life in Germany and throughout Europe. But it is the wishful thinking, and obviously that did not work, did not work.

[00:26:47] Yasemin Yüksel And why was it?

[00:26:50] Listener Oliver Maybe - quite hypothetically speaking - that Helmut Kohl and the subsequent political actors have relied too much on the fact that this can work from the inside out when people get to know each other again. As I said: this is a nice guide for the common life. If that worked, we would have said that just the day before reunification - if that had happened the same way, I think the discussions that we have had or are having privately with others would be with friends and so on the fact that there is always so much talk about West and East, that might not be so intense and not so extreme.

[00:27:31] Yasemin Yüksel Finally, I would like to hear from you two: What do you wish for the future? In what kind of world is Hermione supposed to grow up?

[00:27:39] Listener Oliver Ideally without any limit. The nice thing is that when we first came into the world, or explicitly I, with Schengen at the beginning of the 90s, I had the opportunity to drive from A to B without needing a pass. That everything will endure, that she will continue to have the free opportunity to express her opinion and, hopefully, will do so well.

[00:28:01] Listener Louise I hope that this political split, when it is big and that it will catch on, is not that big anymore and that, nevertheless, as I see it, it is growing up in a Germany where East and West is no longer important, because you can go anywhere, because you meet people from all states, from every city. But I think by the fact that she is such a multi-cultural baby - Hessian, Saxon and yes, everything will get to know - for them, everything is normal. And politically, of course, a better situation, that's what I wish for us too.

[00:28:33] Thank you.

[00:28:35] Listener Louise (To Baby Hermione): Do you also say thank you?

[00:28:41] Yasemin Yüksel I heard it, Hermione, arrived. Thank you very much Oliver, thank you, Louise!

[00:28:44] Listener Louise Thank you!

[00:28:51] Yasemin Yüksel That was voice casting . And in the end I have to get rid of something very important today. We thank all listeners who sent us messages and contributed to this episode. These listener episodes are very valuable to us in the editors, and without their input such contributions would not be possible. No matter if they are only a small part or not at all, each of you has contributed something and so many, many thanks. Of course, we're also looking forward to your feedback this week - about this episode or about our podcast in general. For example, if you like, send us an e-mail to stimmfang@spiegel.de or speak to our voice mailbox on 040 380 80 400. You can also send a WhatsApp message to the same number, 040 380 80 400 , The next episode will be available as usual from next Thursday on spiegel.de, Spotify or in all common podcast apps. This episode was produced by Matthias Kirsch and me, Yasemin Yüksel. Thanks for the support this week to Philipp Fackler, Magdalena Lepka, Sebastian Fischer, Johannes Kückens, Wiebke Rasmussen and Matthias Streitz. Our vocal music comes from Davide Russo.

Source: spiegel

All news articles on 2019-11-07

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