"Merry Christmas", so greet many Budapest this year since mid-October. Christmas means "Karácsony" in Hungarian - and Gergely Karácsony is the name of the new mayor of the capital.
The common candidate of all opposition parties has broken in the local elections, the hegemony of the right-wing populist ruling party Fidesz - a historic victory.
Karácsony, 44, receives in a bald office. His employees carried away furniture, plants and books. They feared Fidesz loyalists might have hidden bugs.
SPIEGEL: Mr Karácsony, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán's Fidesz has won all elections at local, national and European level in recent years. How did you manage to recapture Budapest for the opposition?
Karácsony: The opposition parties have finally cooperated, even though they come from different ideological camps. We also let the citizens have their say in the primaries. This has given people the feeling that they are making a real democratic decision. We have seen more and more nationalist governments around the world move away from democratic standards and develop a true cult of the leader. But now, not only in Hungary is there a counter-movement, especially in the cities - you can see that in Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, but also in Turkey, in the election as Lord Mayor in Istanbul.
SPIEGEL: All parties unite to overthrow the government. This is reminiscent of methods such as in times of totalitarianism. Does Orbán have to be fought with such means?
Karácsony: Orbán says that he wants to create an "illiberal democracy". We have window-dressing democracy here: on the outside, Hungary looks democratic, but there is no real political competition any more. There are no checks and balances. They have put the actually independent courts in their service, destroyed the press and made the public service media to their propaganda machine. The opposition had to develop an antidote under these conditions.
SPIEGEL: Is it justified to cooperate with a far-right party like Jobbik?
Karácsony: Jobbik was originally a truly radical party, its members adhering to an ultranationalist mythology. But the jobbik we work with is different. She has separated from the right-wing figures and tried to be a people's party.
SPIEGEL: But only because Fidesz overtook Jobbik on the right and you took the topics away?
Karácsony: No big party in Europe is as far right as Fidesz. I can not understand why she is still part of the European Christian Democratic Group, why the CDU still tolerates her.
SPIEGEL: Did you only get elected as an opponent of Orbán? What are your plans for Budapest?
Karácsony: The lowest common denominator in our alliance was, of course, being against Fidesz. But as a pure protest movement we would not have won. Budapest has been the loser of Fidesz politics in recent years. My program is green and European. I promise to plant a tree for every newborn child in Budapest - about 15,000 trees a year. This is important for the climate in the city, the air is very bad here. We also want to improve public transport and reduce housing costs, we want to promote social housing. Healthcare needs to be urgently reformed.
SPIEGEL: Can Fidesz hinder these projects? Ease you money or create bureaucratic hurdles?
Karácsony: I do not think so. Fidesz would also hit his own voters with such an obstructionist policy.
Tamas Kovacs / DPA
Will transform Hungary into an "illiberal democracy" - Prime Minister Viktor Orbán
SPIEGEL: Fidesz seemed to have overpowered in recent years. Where do you see weaknesses?
Karácsony: The arbitrariness makes the party vulnerable. Fidesz has invested a great deal in prestigious projects, but has neglected the policies that are important to people's daily lives: housing or fighting the smog. Fidesz serves the prime minister's hobbies, building stadiums instead of reforming the healthcare system.
SPIEGEL: Almost every week, the government is struck by new corruption scandals. Why do you obviously not hurt that politically?
Karácsony: Unfortunately, there is a long tradition of corruption in our country. The tolerance of the Hungarian society is very high. Because Fidesz dominates the media world, many news about abuse of office does not reach everyone. But gradually the ongoing affairs lead to an erosion of power.
SPIEGEL: In some rural areas, Fidesz even managed to increase its supremacy in local elections. Why is that?
Karácsony: The political division of city and country is a global problem. The Brexiteers and also US President Donald Trump have their base more in the countryside than in the cities, this gap is getting bigger. Today, more people feel alone. They feel they are neglected, they do not belong properly. Karl Marx, but also modern sociologists thought for a long time that the isolation in the cities takes place. But the past few years have shown that it is the other way around, that in cities rather than in rural areas, one has the chance to join a larger, identity-building group, such as a citizens' initiative or a club. The isolation effect is much greater in rural communities. That's why people like to choose a strong leader figure there.
SPIEGEL: You are seeking contact with other liberal European mayors, for example in Warsaw or Istanbul. They have a kind of "alliance of free cities" against the right-wing populists. How should this work?
Karácsony: We want to build a community so that we do not get pissed off so that the central governments do not decide beyond our heads. The governments in Poland and Hungary are sabotaging the European principles of democracy and the rule of law. The opposition cities should be particularly committed to European values. There has to be a direct dialogue between the EU and these cities.
SPIEGEL: Are not you worried that such a policy will further intensify the division between city and country?
Karácsony: The reservations become smaller when people see that the cities are better governed. We want to prove that change is an opportunity, that one can control it and not have to be afraid of it.
SPIEGEL: EU proceedings against Hungary and Poland for violations of the rule of law have remained largely without consequences. What can Brussels do to help opposition cities?
Karácsony: It will not do any good if Brussels abolishes aid to all countries. It would be good if the EU, instead of lending money to the central government, helped us directly. For example, the Orbán government is in violation of the EU air pollution guidelines and it does not do anything about smog and climate change. EU money should only go to those regions or municipalities that follow European rules.
