Greek Minister of Migration: "No more cruel pictures"

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The new Greek Minister of Migration George Koumoutsakos is faced with a great task. His conservative party was elected to bring order to Greek migration chaos. But so far the opposite happened: Significantly more refugees reach the country, the situation in the accommodations on the Aegean Islands is catastrophic, even the Greek islanders are becoming increasingly dissatisfied.

Koumoutsakos is to manage the largest number of refugees since 2016 - without angering the European partners by simply sending the refugees to the north, like some of their predecessors. SPIEGEL meets him at the edge of a conference in Thessaloniki.

In the interview, Koumoutsakos warns that the situation could get out of control - and rejects Turkey's allegations that Greece is conducting large-scale illegal illegal push-backs at the border.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Koumoutsakos, your party has been chosen for the promise to effectively manage migration. But the situation on the Greek islands in the Aegean is worse than ever. The number of landings has increased since you took office. Were you surprised by it?

George Koumoutsakos: We were surprised by the fact that almost immediately after taking office in July, the flow of migrants and refugees from Turkey has increased significantly. According to our data, the number of arrivals between May and mid-October 2019 has increased by around 240 percent.

SPIEGEL: What are the causes of this increase?

Koumoutsakos : A new wave of asylum seekers from Syria and many Afghans from Afghanistan and Iran reach us. Add to that the new repressive policy of Turkey towards the hundreds of thousands of Syrians living in Istanbul. Immediately after our seizure of power, Turkey's policy has changed: Ankara has repeatedly threatened Europe to open the gates for migrants. That's a pull factor. Repeatedly, refugees, migrants and smugglers see a chance.

SPIEGEL: Turkish President Erdogan has often said this threat. Do you think she is more credible now?

Koumoutsakos : He has made similar statements in the past, but he has never been so persistent. It's not just the content, but also the frequency of threats that worries us. Especially as they come at a time when relations between the EU and Turkey are not the best. I will neither dramatize nor underestimate the risk; but Greece and Europe need to be prepared for all sorts of scenarios.

SPIEGEL: You are talking about external causes beyond your control. Do governments need to be able to handle unforeseen developments efficiently?

Koumoutsakos : Of course. But the increase in numbers came very early, in the first 15 days after we took office. That was at a time when we did not have a decent counterpart in Europe. The term of office of the previous EU commission ended, and the new one had not yet taken over.

Most importantly, we inherited a dysfunctional asylum system from the previous government: the Greek borders were closed to emigrants leaving, but open to immigrant migrants. When we took over the government, there were around 75,000 open asylum applications, the asylum application process took too long and the reception centers on the islands were overcrowded.

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SPIEGEL: The Greeks still blame your government. What are you doing to change all this?

Koumoutsakos : I do not use that as an excuse to justify something. It's the reality we had to face. We have changed the law on asylum in order to accelerate decisions and to separate those who are entitled to international protection from those who have to leave. We aim for thousands of repatriations in the coming months. We also strengthen the protection of our borders. This has top priority. Our new philosophy combines respect for human rights with the protection of citizens and country security. It can be summarized in two words: democratic rigor.

SPIEGEL: On Wednesday, your government announced it would turn open refugee camps in the islands into closed camps. What is that supposed to help?

Koumoutsakos : Our plan is to create closed detention centers for foreigners to be deported. New arrivals remain in reception and identification centers until the identification process is completed and their application has been reviewed.

SPIEGEL: Is not that contrary to the principle that the detention of asylum seekers should be the last resort?

Koumoutsakos : Detention will not exceed the maximum allowed under EU and national law.

picture alliance / dpa

Soon to be closed camp: The refugee camp Moria on Lesbos

SPIEGEL: In addition to the criticism of the inhumane conditions on the islands, there are further serious allegations: Turkey accuses Greece of illegally repelling tens of thousands of asylum seekers, SPIEGEL has analyzed documents to prove it.

Koumoutsakos : I read the report. My answer is that Greece fully respects its international obligations and international law. Those who accuse us do not have the same track record.

SPIEGEL: You said that priority is given to the protection of borders. Are you worried that jihadists could enter the country by posing as refugees?

Koumoutsakos : We are alert. Parts of Syria, from which new refugees are currently coming, are strongly influenced by fundamentalists and jihadists. The Greek authorities are fully aware of the challenge. In cooperation with our western partners, we will prevent such cases.

SPIEGEL: A prominent minister of your government has recently told the EU Parliament that the migration situation in Greece is "uncontrollable". Do you share this assessment?

Christopher Furlong / Getty Images

Dream of Europe: Migrants on Lesvos look over to the ferries that go to the mainland

Koumoutsakos : If so many arrive on our already overcrowded islands, yes, then the situation becomes uncontrollable. But winter is approaching and the currents should decrease significantly, giving us time to improve conditions. From Greece, no pictures will come cruel pictures more.

SPIEGEL: What do you expect from the new EU Commission?

Koumoutsakos : It is positive that migration is high on the agenda of Leyen. We support a system of solidarity and burden-sharing. We will also call for an EU return mechanism and a strong EU policy against smugglers in Turkey and elsewhere.

SPIEGEL: Horst Seehofer has recently proposed a new EU asylum system, in which asylum applications at the external border should be quickly pre-checked by a European asylum agency, which takes over this work from the national authorities. Do you support the plan?

Koumoutsakos : We welcome the initiative of Mr Seehofer. The aim is to overcome the blockade of three years of negotiations on a new common European asylum system. Our position is that the EU asylum system must ensure a balance between the increased responsibility of the Member States at the external border, and the solidarity and burden sharing of the other Member States. The European Asylum Authority can provide valuable assistance, but national authorities should not be replaced.

This article is part of the project Global Society, for which our reporters report from four continents. The project is long-term and supported by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

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