SPD interim boss Dreyer on the runoff election: "It must not go below the belt"

By Friday, midnight, around 425,000 Social Democrats are called to elect their new chairmen. Klara Geywitz and Olaf Scholz or Saskia Esken and Norbert Walter-Borjans?

The tone in the party has recently become sharper. Lower Saxony's Prime Minister Stephan Weil warns in an interview against choosing Esken and Walter Borjans. The two challengers, in turn, criticize Scholz's style of negotiation.

The party expects a close result of the runoff election. What comes next, does the SPD threaten the split? Malu Dreyer, acting head of the party until the party congress in early December, insists on a fair deal.

SPIEGEL: Ms. Dreyer, you are personally calling SPD members these days to promote the runoff election. Is that pure despair because you fear a low turnout?

Dreyer: That gives me great pleasure: a surprise call from our members. The comrades are very surprised when I call them personally, but it's really nice to chat a bit. Of course, I also say: "Every vote counts, there's still time until next Friday." By the way, most had already voted.

SPIEGEL: Who did you choose?

Dreyer: I can not tell you that. I have agreed neutrality.

SPIEGEL: Almost the entire party leadership is in favor of Olaf Scholz and Klara Geywitz. Lower Saxony's prime minister Stephan Weil warns even with drastic words before the election of Norbert Walter-Borjans and Saskia Esken. Is the party in danger of a split?

Dreyer: Each party member and especially the party leadership has the task of holding the party together. Of course, a ballot has its own laws. But I do not see that two poles face each other irreconcilably.

SPIEGEL: What are you personally doing to prevent a split?

Dreyer: I am in favor of an open debate. Members need to know where the differences lie between the teams. But it has to stay fair and not go below the belt. If the result is confirmed on Saturday night, everyone must work together to keep the party together. With all the consequences.

SPIEGEL: What do you mean?

Dreyer: If that of a self-supported duo does not win, you should be able to say: Okay, that was a democratic election, I accept the result and from now on continue to campaign for the party as a whole.

SPIEGEL: The SPD has been looking for a new leadership for half a year. It harms the party, you have lost votes in three state elections, the polls are lousy.

Dreyer: I see that differently. The outcome of the state elections has a lot to do with our procedure. Rather, the behavior that led to the resignation of Andrea Nahles harmed us. People have found that very unsolid. In the meantime we have at least stabilized, but at a level that we are not satisfied with, that we will improve.

SPIEGEL: Walter-Borjans and Esken criticize the negotiating style of the climate package and ground rent, Scholz is satisfied with the GroKo compromises too quickly. You co-negotiated in the coalition committee. Do you feel attacked?

Dreyer: Oh no, I do not see it as an attack on my person, but as part of the election campaign. In fact, we negotiated very hard and in the end successfully. In terms of land rent, we have achieved more than the coalition agreement states. That was a very difficult topic for the Union. We achieved a lot there and that was also due to our common negotiating style.

HC Plambeck

Malu Dreyer: "The majority of SPD supporters reject a GroKo exit, say surveys"

SPIEGEL: After the failure of the Jamaica negotiations two years ago, you were skeptical about a renewed Grand Coalition. Many in the party are more than ever. Will the SPD get out of the GroKo?

Dreyer: We'll discuss that at the party congress. The majority of SPD supporters reject a GroKo exit, polls say. Yes, the decision for this coalition was incredibly difficult for me at the beginning. Basically, I am, however, to keep my word. The GroKo is truly not a covenant of love, but a community of convenience. But the members made the decision then and now we have a lot in the coalition out of the coalition agreement.

SPIEGEL: For example?

Dreyer: We have to convert the land rent and the climate package into concrete laws. Another important topic is the nonfunded time limit. I had a conference with a thousand works councils last week, that was central. Temporary employment contracts are a huge problem in times of great uncertainty.

SPIEGEL: Do you want to renegotiate the coalition agreement?

Dreyer: We still have a lot to implement, from what we have set ourselves. In a coalition you can always talk about new topics, if necessary. For example, about structural change in industry.

SPIEGEL: Do you also want to talk to the Union about your new concept of child protection?

Dreyer: In the context of the renewal of the SPD, we have undertaken a lot: property tax, child protection, a new welfare state concept. That's what we're going to do in the future, which can not be fully implemented in this coalition. You may be able to take individual steps earlier.

SPIEGEL: Juso CEO Kevin Kühnert has announced his intention to run for the board, possibly even as a party vice. Do you support that?

Dreyer: We need young people like him to be responsible. I'm absolutely open for that. The members of the party executive vote but the party congress.

HC Plambeck

Malu Dreyer with SPIEGEL editors: "We could radiate more confidence overall"

SPIEGEL: You have led the party provisionally for half a year now. What surprised you during this time?

Dreyer: The SPD is in a very difficult situation, but it is nevertheless constructive and committed. That surprised me positively. However, we could be more confident overall. I miss that too often.

LEVEL: Can you learn from the Greens?

Dreyer: No, I do not think so. Swimming on a wave of success is no problem. The SPD lacks the positive charisma because we are stuck in a survey low. That also weighed on me most in those five months.

SPIEGEL: Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg want to get out of the National Education Council. What do you make of it?

Dreyer: I take note of that.

SPIEGEL: That means?

Dreyer: Well, the National Education Council has landed on efforts of the CDU and the CSU in the coalition agreement. I think the party leaders of the Union just have to clarify what they want.

SPIEGEL: Do you apply again as deputy party leader at the party congress?

Dreyer: I am ready to get involved in the future, too. The party executive will make a proposal for a closer party leadership in time for the party congress. I do not want to anticipate that.

SPIEGEL: Because you only compete when a particular duo wins?

Dreyer: It does not matter which team wins. There are many considerations.