Catching votes # 126 - Rezo video, Ibiza affair, resignations: The political year 2019
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GroKo dispute and Greens hype, SPD leadership search and the climate protests: In 2019, there was a lot going on in Germany from a political perspective. What moments remain in your mind? And what events are still relevant at the end of the year?
This is what the new voice-picking episode is about. The SPIEGEL colleagues from the Berlin office tell which political events were the most important for the year. For capital office manager Martin Knobbe, the Ibiza affair is at the top. For Ann-Katrin Müller, who writes about the AfD, the state election in Brandenburg was a turning point.
And CDU / CSU rapporteur Florian Gathmann said about the video of the Youtuber Rezo: "Back then I had no idea that we would be talking about Rezo as one of the moments of the year at the end of the year."
The podcast as text for reading
Do you want to read what is said in the podcast? Then you are right here.
The full transcript
[00:00:02] Yasemin Yüksel Welcome to Fangfang, SPIEGEL's political podcast. I am Yasemin Yüksel
[00:00:07] Matthias Kirsch - and I am Matthias Kirsch.
[00:00:11] Matthias Kirsch We released 46 episodes in 2019. We talked about the federal government, i.e. the GroKo:
[00:00:18] Angela Merkel We should continue to work for the legislature - my personal opinion. Count me in! Thank you very much, if you are too!
[00:00:26] Yasemin Yüksel The European elections were an issue:
[00:00:28] Robert Habeck (Bündnis 90 / Die Grünen) What has happened around 22 percent is really a sensation and one that takes our breath away.
[00:00:34] Matthias Kirsch In autumn we dealt with the state elections in the east:
[00:00:38] Alexander Gauland (AfD) We are the big bourgeois opposition party in Brandenburg, Mr. Senftleben's CDU no longer exists.
[00:00:46] Yasemin Yüksel And again and again the podcast was about climate policy:
[00:00:54] Fridays for Future We are here, we are loud because you steal our future from us.
[00:00:54] Matthias Kirsch These issues have concerned us internally in 2019 and now at the end of the year, our colleagues from the SPIEGEL capital office tell of their political moments in 2019.
[00:01:08] Valerie Höhne My name is Valerie Höhne and I report from the SPIEGEL capital office on the Greens and the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs. For me, one of the most important political moments in 2019 was the European elections. It was the first nationwide election to take place since the 2017 federal election and a lot has changed politically since then.
[00:01:27] Einspielers Wahlsendung Otherwise, we have figures that will hit the parties in the market - and I believe an election evening that not only we will not forget, but also many that are now the forecasts for Germany, for the European Parliament and later for the state of Bremen.
[00:01:43] Valerie Höhne The European elections simply showed different trends that are interesting. On the one hand, the SPD lost 11 percentage points, so it still lost significantly in contrast to the Bundestag election. The Union also lost. The Greens gained very, very much - 9.8 percentage points - and landed at 20.5 percent.
[00:02:02] Robert Habeck (Bündnis 90 / Die Grünen) What has happened around 22 percent is really a sensation and one that takes our breath away. That is a gigantic advance of trust and we will evaluate it as a work mandate nationally and also at the European level.
[00:02:17] Valerie Höhne I already said this in the podcast: For the Greens it was a moment of boom - the best moment for the Greens since they came to the Bundestag or the government. That was just the moment for the Greens when they thought: maybe that's not hype, maybe it can last. We have now won over 20 percent in a nationwide election. We could do that in a federal election and at the moment - at least what I heard from the party - they started to believe in it. Before that, you were always very careful to try to downplay it all.
[00:02:52] Annalena Baerbock (Bündnis 90 / Die Grünen) So we are not speculating about the Chancellor question - even if I already noticed in the anteaser of this report from Berlin or the summer interviews that you are extremely interested. We have an elected federal government, there is no election date, and that is why it is not a question that I am speculating about.
[00:03:07] Valerie Höhne In a subheading with us it said: "Is that just a slip up?" I think it is not yet clear whether this is a slip up or not. It may be that this was actually just a slip up and that is now ... flattening out again. But what I think is relatively certain is that the Greens will of course improve significantly compared to their last Bundestag election result, which was 8.9 percent. So everything will be a success for them now. It is simply not yet known whether this wave will continue. So, either the start of the green wave in the Federal Republic and there are things that speak for a green wave. For example, Belit Onay won the mayor election in Hanover.
[00:03:48] Belit Onay (Bündnis 90 / Die Grünen) If you want a message from Lower Saxony tonight, then it really is: Greens can country and Greens can also city. We found that in this election campaign - I think - and very well in these elections in Lower Saxony.
[00:04:00] Valerie Höhne And next year there are local elections in Munich and also mayor election in Munich. It could of course be that they win there. That would of course be a turning point. And then there are citizens' elections in Hamburg.
[00:04:13] Winnfried Kretschmann (Bündnis 90 / Die Grünen) We are taking on a new role. This is no longer just about helping to shape the role, but also taking it along.
[00:04:22] Valerie Höhne It will now depend a lot on how the next elections will go - whether this is seen as a one-time slip or not.
[00:04:32] Christian Teevs I am Christian Teevs, I report on the SPD in the SPIEGEL capital office. My political moment of the year was the resignation of Andrea Nahles, that was June 2nd. And I found out about it - it was a bit of a curious situation, too, because I had my 20-year graduation meeting the night before and was still a little sleepy the next morning - and suddenly the urgent news came that Ms. Nahles resigned.
[00:04:58] Andrea Nahles (SPD) Hello, I have just said goodbye to the SPD party executive, I have resigned, and I would also like to thank you personally for the years of good cooperation. You take care!
[00:05:17] Christian Teevs And then I was on the way back to Berlin - from my hometown to Berlin again - of course all the time on the phone. How does it go on now? How does the party position itself now? It was, of course, an insanely stressful day on which a lot has happened of what has shaped the party's future path this year.
[00:05:36] Malu Dreyer (SPD) We all know that we have a lot to thank Andrea Nahles for. And we also know how we stand here that Andrea Nahles is not the one who can be counted alone, that the SPD is in this really, really difficult situation.
[00:05:51] Christian Teevs I think a lot of what has been so difficult in the party in the past few months was hanging on this one day because: Of course Andrea Nahles was incredibly controversial and strong in criticism and so on nevertheless, her sudden resignation this Sunday morning shocked many in the party. Many then asked themselves a little bit: What are we doing here? How do we actually deal with our management staff? I would say that on that day and what happened in the months that followed, a lot was already showing what was often wrong in politics, what was wrong in the SPD, namely how to deal with your own people. And the SPD has now really promised to do it differently this time. I'm curious to see if it works.
[00:06:41] Lars Klingbeil (SPD) Moin, this is Lars. I would like to tell you something. I am really proud that we as the SPD are now breaking new ground on who will lead the party in the future; that we decided to break with past rituals.
[00:06:53] Christian Teevs It was relatively clear that the SPD did not want to do it as usual because: After Andrea Nahles' resignation, there was of course a great deal in question as to how to proceed; that they didn't want to do backroom stories like that anymore. The entire process did not yet indicate that it would take six months for the SPD to have a new party leadership. But it was already clear that the party wanted to do something different this time.
[00:07:16] Saskia Esken (SPD) Behind us, behind you too, behind us all there are now three long months of competition for the most beautiful post-Pope position - as someone once said. And the fact that we are here now, nominated by the members, is really pretty great. Thanks alot!
[00:07:31] Norber Walter-Borjahns (SPD) We are very aware that this is not a question of victory or defeat, but that it is a question of keeping a great social democratic party together and wherever it happens a little bit apart to bring them together again.
[00:07:47] Christian Teevs There was a lot going on, there was a great unrest in the party, also in the coalition, constantly - already in 2018, but also this year - resistance, the coalition on the brink, it was unclear how long it would go on; it was also unclear how the SPD intends to continue. From the point of view of a rapporteur, this is an incredibly exciting time, also tiring time, because the party and the coalition never really come to rest. And the last few days and weeks suggest that things will continue to do the same next year.
[00:08:25] Florian Gathmann I am Florian Gathmann, I am responsible for reporting on the Union parties and the Chancellery in the SPIEGEL capital office. When I think of 2019, the most political thing that comes to my mind is what happened after YouTuber Rezo released his video "The Destruction of the CDU".
[00:08:46] Rezo Yes, it's time for this video again. Today we look at the CDU, also a little SPD and a little AfD. But primarily we look at the CDU.
[00:08:53] Florian Gathmann The moment I saw this video for the first time was such a special moment because I would not say now that I already knew what impact and what impact would have this video in the end. But it was already clear to me at the moment that this was somehow extraordinary, because the title "The Destruction of the CDU" alone is extraordinary in its force.
[00:09:23] Rezo Okay, so this video is not going to be a boring political video. This is really going to be a destruction video. Not because I am actively trying to destroy someone, but because the facts and facts simply suggest that the CDU is destroying itself, its reputation and its election results.
[00:09:38] Florian Gathmann It basically worked for almost an hour why the CDU and the CSU and yes the SPD - even if they don't appear in the title - are incapable.
[00:09:48] Rezo I will show in this video how CDU people lie, how they lack basic skills for their job, how they do politics against clear expert opinion, how they apparently participate in various war crimes, how they propaganda and use falsehoods against the young generation, as the politics of the rich have gained more and more over the past few decades, and more and more have replaced everyone else, and I show that, according to the expert opinion of tens of thousands of German scientists, the CDU is currently destroying our lives and our future.
[00:10:18] Florian Gathmann The problem was simply that the CDU could not find an answer to it. They were basically shock-frozen, because that was also a kind of attack that was previously unknown to the CDU. Usually you are attacked by political opponents, you are attacked by journalists or criticized. But that suddenly there was a YouTuber with blue hair, of whom all of them - and we usually also didn’t hear anything - that he suddenly does it this way, they were literally speechless for the time being. Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, of course, was the person most negatively affected by this video, because in such a case the party chairman is of course responsible for communication. And so Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer was initially unable to find an adequate answer.
[00:11:11] Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (CDU) The impression that there is with regard to the CDU, but it also affected the CSU and SPD, which is expressed there - which is basically towards all members signals that everyone who is involved in the CDU, CSU, SPD is either somehow underprivileged, so to speak, or is trying to destroy the future of this country - I really feel like a slap in the face of people who largely volunteer for this alongside their job Get involved in the country.
[00:11:47] Florian Gathmann For a short time there was the idea that someone would answer a video.
[00:11:51] Philipp Amthor Yes, lol, ey. Hi Rezo, you old destroyer. You have recently published a well-respected video entitled "The Destruction of the CDU". And I want to tell you as the youngest member of the CDU Bundestag: You have not destroyed my CDU.
[00:12:07] Florian Gathmann You didn't do that. But it had already been communicated that there would be one. that didn't come, it was quite embarrassing. Instead, there was an 11-page PDF, which of course is actually the wrong answer to an almost one-hour YouTube video. But above all, Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer just made the mistake - and that then joins in a series of mistakes over the year - after the European elections, in which the CDU achieved its worst historical result she basically went into a counterattack and suddenly started talking about internet opinion making.
[00:12:48] Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (CDU) When the news came that a whole series of YouTubers have come together to start a call, election call against CDU and SPD, I wondered what was actually in in this country, if a number of, let's say, 70 newspaper offices had declared two days before the election: We are making a joint call "Please don't vote for CDU and SPD". That would have been clear opinion before the election, and I think it would have sparked a lively discussion in this country.
[00:13:17] Florian Gathmann And it was completely unclear, at least for the listener who was there - I was at the press conference - what she meant exactly. At that time it was not my feeling that Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer seriously wanted to somehow limit the diversity of opinion in Germany.
[00:13:32] Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (CDU) And the question arises with regard to the subject of opinion making: What are rules from the analogue area and which rules actually apply to the digital area? Yes or no? This is a very basic question that we will be talking about. And not only we in the CDU and with the CDU, but, I am quite sure, it will play a role in the entire media-political and democratic-theoretical discussion in the near future.
[00:13:57] Florian Gathmann But one could at least get the idea, and there were quite a few rapporteurs who interpreted it the same way. And with that, of course, Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer did exactly the wrong thing that she could do.
[00:14:08] Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (CDU) And that was fundamentally wrong. We should have reacted very quickly to the video right from the start. I think it wouldn't have mattered what reaction at first. It should only have happened very quickly.
[00:14:22] Florian Gathmann It was actually an important moment for all political parties in Germany, because they all noticed at the moment: There is an area in the public that we have to deal with very differently, on which we have to react very differently. The CDU has learned from this that it has modernized its social media team and its press office in general, and now has a contract with a professional agency. In this respect, the CDU has learned something from it. But I think the damage to the image is sustainable, and they still have to nibble on it.
[00:15:03] Ann-Katrin Müller I am Ann-Katrin Müller, I have been here in the capital city office for almost seven years and I am now reporting on the AfD and the Ministry of Family Affairs. For me, the political moment in 2019 as AfD rapporteur was the state elections in Brandenburg and then also in the other eastern German states - Brandenburg, because Andreas Kalbitz is at the head of the AfD and he has meanwhile made some of his past public ,
[00:15:33] Andreas Kalbitz (AfD) Many said yes at the end of the election campaign, they are looking forward to it when it is over. Nothing is over, now it really starts. It really starts.
[00:15:41] Ann-Katrin Müller Because you noticed that a quarter of the voters either don't care or that despite all their previous knowledge they choose a man who has spent more than half of his life in right-wing extremist circles. And that just shows that the party has come to terms with having right-wing extremists in its ranks. That made me think again and made me ask: Why is that? What does that mean? What is happening in Germany somehow?
[00:16:09] Andreas Kalbitz (AfD) Even if any journalist was able to hang my scalp on his belt, then the next one would be on the AfD. That is rampant journalism.
[00:16:21] Ann-Katrin Müller I don't think it can be clearly said that people vote for it or that they don't care at all. I think there are two attitudes. In fact, one has to ask oneself how the people who isolate themselves from the media - these are often the ones who comment on or scream at the lying press - how to deliver information to those who have even been confirmed by the AfD itself. So we did some research on Mr. Kalbitz, which he himself confirmed that that was true. And yet it was said afterwards that this was fake news. It's an interesting process.
[00:16:55] Andreas Kalbitz (AfD) In the matter I was - I can say that again clearly - neither involved in the raising of any flags, nor do I belong to any NPD circles. That is a fact. The rest is fake. Even if the Relotius magazine deliberately and politically motivated constructed these associations as a media surface template.
[00:17:17] Ann-Katrin Müller I would say that the year has shown and also made visible that the party is as radical as many have said for a long time. The last time you saw this was at the party conference, a few weeks ago in Braunschweig. There it is very clear: All critics of the right-hand margin of the right-wing AfD, the "wing", as this platform is called internally, have been punished. There are actually only people on the board who either openly belong to the wing or who say they have no problem with the "wing"
[00:17:48] Martin Knobbe My name is Martin Knobbe, I am head of the SPIEGEL capital office, here in Berlin, and my political moment was researching the so-called Ibiza affair, at the end of which was the resignation of the Vice Chancellor of Austria, Heinz-Christian Strache, stood and also the end of the FPÖ / ÖVP government.
[00:18:04] Recorded videos have been secretly leaked to the news magazine Der SPIEGEL and the Süddeutsche Zeitung. In it, the party leader of the FPÖ promised government contracts to a supposedly rich Russian woman in return for campaign aid.
[00:18:20] Martin Knobbe This weekend, when we released the video, was actually surprising for me and in a way overwhelming. I thought it would have some impact. And of course the video - you couldn't have imagined it better. The video itself has already spoken.
[00:18:43] Hans-Christian Strache (formerly FPÖ) Then we don't do 27, then we do 34 [percent].
[00:18:43] Martin Knobbe insofar - it was not surprising that the video would work. But that a government has to step down within a day - that was really amazing. That was a moment that was enormous.
[00:18:54] Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) That is why I proposed to the Federal President today to hold early elections in Austria, as soon as possible.
[00:19:04] Martin Knobbe When we saw [the Ibiza video] for the first time, the first thought was: someone wants to take us up, it can't be that way. And that's why it was actually the guiding question throughout the entire research, that we said we have to prove that this video is actually not a fake, that nobody has mixed anything in the soundtrack, that maybe actors - apart from the oligarch niece, we knew that she was an actress - that it might not be possible to see the people it was supposed to be, namely Strache and his confidante Gudenus.
[00:19:37] Johann Gudenus (formerly FPÖ) Are there donors for the election now, for the election campaign?
[00:19:39] Heinz-Christian Strache (formerly FPÖ) Yes, yes, there are some very wealthy people. They pay between 500,000 and one and a half to two million.
[00:19:39] Johann Gudenus (formerly FPÖ) Now for the election?
[00:19:39] Heinz-Christian Strache (formerly FPÖ) Yes.
[00:19:39] Martin Knobbe That's why it was actually the main task that we first clarified internally here, so also with the multimedia department, who looked at it and checked for any abnormalities. But then we decided to give it to external experts - also to be able to say to the outside world: The really best people you can find in Germany really looked at them and they came to the very clear result, that nothing was manipulated. The original thing was: In the end we had to confront those affected and they admitted everything. So the effort was somehow free. But of course it was important to approach them only when we knew that everything was really real.
[00:20:34] Heinz-Christian Strache (formerly FPÖ) Yes, it was stupid, it was irresponsible and it was a mistake. Yes, and my statements were soberly disastrous and extremely embarrassing. I am not available to apologize to anyone I have discredited.
[00:20:48] Martin Knobbe For me, the decisive effect and the reason why we did it was that this video simply tore down a facade, that an FPÖ politician who always used politics to say so , I am not part of the establishment, I am concerned with the little people and so on and so on that this facade was torn down because it was seen that this was the real world of Heinz-Christian Strache. And this aftermath also worked. It could be seen from the election results that many of them no longer trusted the FPÖ - at least under Strache. And I think it's somehow our job to show who the people really are. Are they the ones they pretend to be or is there something else behind them? As you can see now: The FPÖ has also broken up a little bit through the whole thing, is now repositioning itself and is in some way clearing up because it is all these scandals, including this donation scandal and the dubious expenses, of which there are There was talk that everything is now being worked up.
[00:21:53] Yasemin Yüksel That was our year in review of the political moments in 2019. The next voice-catching episode will appear in the new year on January 9th - then as always on spiegel.de, on Spotify, iTunes and in all popular podcasts apps. Until then we take a short break and wish you, all of our listeners, happy holidays and a good start to the new year. As always, we look forward to your feedback. To do this, you can send us an email to stimmenfang@spiegel.de or you can speak to our mailbox at 040 380 80 400. You can also send us a WhatsApp message to the same number, i.e. 040 380 80 400. This episode was produced by Matthias Kirsch and me, Yasemin Yüksel. Thanks for the support to Philipp Fackler, Johannes Kückens, Wiebke Rasmussen, Sebastian Spallek, Matthias Streitz and Philipp Wittrock. The voice-catching music comes from Davide Russo.
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