Tokyo, November 2019, in the Shueisha premises, with Odilon Grevet my interpreter we expect Kaiu Shirai and Posuka Demizu the duo at the origin of the fantastic manga which has conquered millions of readers around the world.
The plot of this successful series tells the adventures of young Emma and her friends, who live happy days at the orphanage - Grace Field House - run by Madame Isabella, nicknamed Mama. When they discover the terrible truth behind this apparent peaceful life, everything changes. Escape is then their only chance of survival ... For more than three years, the authors have masterfully followed the reversals of situations and keep their readers in suspense.
LE FIGARO. - What made you want to become a mangaka?
Kaiu SHIRAI (script). - After studies I became an office worker. A position that gave me no satisfaction on a daily basis. Once I realized that I was not made for this type of work I resigned. I was then a little bedridden, nothing serious, but it gave me time to cogitate. And I realized that I wanted to turn to more creative work. And that's how I chose this path, let's say more artistic.
Posuka DEMIZU (drawing). - At 17 I participated and won a young talent competition organized by the Weekly Shonen Jump. But since I wanted to study art, I didn't become a professional straight away after high school. I enrolled in a university of applied art where I passed my diplomas in painting. I rather wanted to work in illustration. That's why I started making illustrations for manga for children. And ten years later, somewhat by chance, I was contacted by Shirai-sensei to work on his manga. This is how I came back to the world of Jump.
Emma, Ray and Norman, the leading trio of the Orphanage organizing their great escape. YAKUSOKU NO NEVERLAND 2016 by Kaiu Shirai, Posuka Demizu / SHUEISHA Inc.
Do you remember this meeting?
KS - When I wanted to change jobs, everything did not go as planned. I had enormous difficulty finding work. I submitted many scenarios ... without success. When I thought I had exhausted all of my resources, I remembered that an editor had advised me to write a manga that would change my destiny instead of trying to write a manga "to please" . I put on paper an idea that had been in my head for a long time. It was the prototype of The Promised Neverland , which turned into a storyboard of around 300 pages. Which is completely out of the ordinary for a new title pitch. I broke through the editors a bit with this long storyboard. I notably showed it at Shonen Jump, and I was entrusted to the good care of Mr. Takushi Sugita. The story pleased him. We then went in search of a designer. It took us two years to find the right person to illustrate this manga. Fortunately, Demizu-sensei agreed to draw the story of The Promised Neverland .
What ultimately represent these 300 pages of storyboard?
KS - On my storyboard, it was about 15 chapters. But after having deepened the history, that covered until the end of the arc of Grace Field , that is to say 5 volumes.
What is the genesis of this story? Trauma from your childhood?
KS - (the author inquires with his publisher before answering this question. Certain points were not revealed in Japan, and it is necessary the authorization of the editor to obtain the first of these revelations.) Let's say that the genesis of this story is quite complex. I will try to tell the main points. As you might have guessed, part of the story comes from certain nightmares that I had as a child. Especially after reading Hänsel and Gretel , I was afraid of being devoured. All these stories where children are eaten really marked me when I was little. This trauma, the fear of being eaten by a wicked witch, accompanied me even as an adult. After all, why by being taller, would I have less risk? I also remember a manga that I read as a child, carried on the minds made me ask myself the question: "If the monsters raised humans like cattle, they could solve their problem". All these fears, ideas, these influences, formed a whole. This is how the story of The Promised Neverland was born .
Demizu-sensei, when you were approached for this story, how did you "search for your trait"?
PD- I was very inspired by reading the initial script. For example, it was crucial that the text bubbles pop out because it is a manga where dialogues are very important. So I focused on this point. As before, I was making illustrations for children's books, I brought this experience with me. For example on the cover of the first volume, you can see that the pencil is not erased. I draw over the pencil without erasing it, which gives a very illustrative aspect, more than traditional manga. Regarding the style of my drawing, it is difficult to answer you because it has evolved enormously in three years of Promised Neverland .
Books - of all kinds - have a prominent place in the universe imagined by Kaiu Shirai. YAKUSOKU NO NEVERLAND 2016 by Kaiu Shirai, Posuka Demizu / SHUEISHA Inc.
Is that why you use the “Fish Eyes” technique a lot?
PD- It is indeed a style that I particularly like, because it allows in a tight image to put a lot of elements. By distorting the perspective, this technique enlarges the space, despite the feeling of tight drawing.
The story seems set in Victorian England. Why this choice of period?
KS - First I wanted to destabilize the readers, to lead them on the wrong tracks. I also wanted to avoid placing the story in a very precise temporality. It was funny that readers thought it was a story in an English orphanage in the 19th century. European architecture is quite old. And yet it is not surprising to have buildings with an old style that house more modern technology, such as computers. Then why did I choose England specifically? I'm not sure. I think the name of the orphanage, "Grace Field House" in English in the text, appealed to me. For the Japanese, European town planning is a benchmark, a much appreciated style. We highly appreciate this style. It is a kind of Epinal image for the Japanese.
How did you get your information?
PD - When I was younger, I spent two months studying English in England. At that time, I had taken a lot of photographs which still serve as a reference today. I would have liked to be able to go back there before the start of the manga to make a specific location, but now it's too late. The pace of publication does not allow us this kind of getaway. I remember at the time being very marked by the English forests. The trees are very different from those found in Japan. The atmosphere, the atmosphere also marked me.
KS - I would have liked to go too. What if we asked our editor for a break (laughs)?
Is there a link between the title "Neverland" and Peter Pan ?
KS - Yes, of course. Neverland is the imaginary country where children never grow up in Lewis Carroll's novel. Thanks to Peter Pan , it's a magical, magical place where you can have fun. But there is also a huge part of shadow in Neverland , at least half of the universe is dark, dangerous. These two parts, the coexistence of childish playfulness and the dangerous shadow hovering at the bottom are indeed factors that I tried to transcribe through The Promised Neverland .
Your first work is a best seller. How did you react to the success?
KS - I didn't expect it at all. I am delighted that my story appeals to readers so much. Especially since this manga is now translated into many languages. It's really amazing to think that her story is read all over the world. But the fact that it is read abroad also scares me a little. I'm afraid that in Europe people find it sounds "wrong". Kind of like a Hollywood movie set in Japan. The Japanese often react by saying, "No, no! This is China. It doesn't represent Japan at all . ” By situating history in a place, a period that I have not personally known, I sometimes feel a bit like an impostor ...
Illustration by Posuka Demizu on the occasion of the third anniversary of the series. YAKUSOKU NO NEVERLAND 2016 by Kaiu Shirai, Posuka Demizu / SHUEISHA Inc.
Without disclosing it, has anyone discovered the real end?
KS - There are several people whose theories are close to the end of the story. But no one has found exactly the ending I expected. It makes me pretty proud and gives me confidence in my story.
Like Death Note , The Promised Neverland is an “extraordinary” work for the Weekly Shonen Jump. Why did you choose to publish in this magazine and not in a Seinen?
KS - That's right, why did I suggest this story to Jump? (laughs) This is the kind of story I would have liked to read in Jump when I was 15 years old. That's why I presented this story to this great magazine. For me there is no reason to deprive the readership of this or that magazine of a story because of an editorial line. In addition, we find in The Promised Neverland canon themes of manga shonen, such as mutual aid, surpassing oneself, etc. And there is also the plot, which is not related to age, even if the themes of the story are darker than the majority of the manga of the Jump.
The young Emma has character in hardened steel. It is the least of things to survive in a hostile universe. YAKUSOKU NO NEVERLAND 2016 by Kaiu Shirai, Posuka Demizu / SHUEISHA Inc.
The choice of Emma, a young girl, as the main character for a publication that mainly targets young boys is audacious. Why this choice ?
KS . - This is a question I am often asked in Japan. The answer is simple. The first enemy in history is the character of "Mother". And it seemed more interesting to me to explore a mother-daughter opposition rather than a mother-son opposition. In addition, as a girl, the heroine has the choice of becoming a mom too or trying to run away. It's more interesting in terms of scenario. And I could easily find more than a dozen other reasons for this choice, but that is the main reason.
The demons all have a particular design. Demizu Posuka likes to explore this very special universe graphically. YAKUSOKU NO NEVERLAND 2016 by Kaiu Shirai, Posuka Demizu / SHUEISHA Inc.
You alternate two styles of drawings depending on whether you are treating children or monsters. What is the most natural style for you and why this choice?
PD - There is no style that I like more than the other, I like to draw both. For children it reminds me of the period when I was making illustrations. As for demons, it is out of a personal taste for all that is fantastic and that which is frightening. I also worked a bit in video games where I made monsters.
KS - We go very far to imagine the “design” of demons and new characters. To have time to think about it and not be pressed by the weekly publication rate. But in a day or two, new characters are born under his pen. For example, the “design” of Sonju's horse was conceived, produced and validated, in one day. I have rarely seen someone as quick and sure as Master Demizu.
Is it thanks to your previous discussions that Demizu can hide clues in the drawings?
KS - Absolutely. There are a lot of things that I don't reveal in advance. I try to make a selection between the information that is necessary for his work, and keep a little surprise, and take advantage of his reactions to have new ideas for the future. Demizu is my first reader.
Clues to the story to come are slipped here and there in the drawings. In the cover of volume 2 the character of Phil draws the acronym of Minerva long before the character is introduced into the story. YAKUSOKU NO NEVERLAND 2016 by Kaiu Shirai, Posuka Demizu / SHUEISHA Inc.
How do you choose the clues to hide in the drawings?
PD - Master Shirai likes to sow small white pebbles like the Petit Poucet. So there are notes of intentions in the storyboard, explaining that it is necessary to do this at this precise moment, because it will have its importance later. But it still leaves a lot of surprises.
The first to leave the "farm" are the students with the lowest grades. Is this a metaphor for this society of excellence that excludes all those who are below average?
KS - Without being a metaphor in the first degree, it is indeed a way of inviting the reader to reflect on current society.
The PETA association, which defends animal rights, compared The Promised Neverland to a pamphlet against mass farming and pro vegetarians. What do you think ?
KS - I didn't know that. To be honest, before you explained to me what PETA was, I didn't know that association existed. It is very interesting that people recovered the work, appropriated this reading. They are free to think what they want. I do not put moral value in The Promised Neverland , as an author I do not think that we are there to judge. It has never been explicitly said that demons are bad people. I don't mind having people relate to veganism and intensive farming. But our goal is above all to create a story to entertain people. Not to offer moral judgment. Our manga is not a criticism of the consumer society per se.
Children are the key to the future, is this a message of hope for our real world?
KS - They are children above all, because the story is published in the Weekly Shonen Jump, a magazine which is mainly read by children and adolescents. This facilitates identification for the reader. And then to stage children who rebel against adults, that is a classic theme in many stories.
Which chapters do you prefer to write and why?
KS - What I prefer are the scenes where the suspense is at its peak. I think I really managed to make a very good thriller between volumes 1 and 5. This is also a concern in my opinion, we really changed the style of the manga after the escape. And it's a daily challenge to find new ideas and keep the story exciting.
And the passages you prefer to draw?
PD - What I prefer is to make the covers of the volumes at the time of the album release. It's a moment when I have to reread the whole story, see the key moments of the volume and find a drawing that can sum it all up in a single image. But also review the previous covers to see how the characters and my line have evolved in parallel.