MK Ram Ben Barak talks about the anger, his friends a white brush, the disappointment of not being appointed head of the institution and the reasons why he decided to join politics

The question that intrigued me most in preparation for the interview with MK Ram Ben Barak (there is a future) was why he decided to jump into the political pool after a long and fascinating career of more than 30 years at a special office? Why did a person involved in dozens of secret operations on every corner Refusing to talk about them, comes to the Knesset to engage in quite gray parliamentary work of ordinary MKs? 

Ben Barak said that after running for the position of head of the Mossad and Prime Minister Netanyahu favored Yossi Cohen, he went into business and, as he puts it, "I did some things quite wrong. I didn't become a millionaire but I made a very good profit, but it didn't really interest me. I have no crazy motivation to be richer than I am today, and when you don't have that motivation it's pretty boring. "

Lapid: "Netanyahu has led coup attempt," May 2020 // Photo: Knesset channel

But why politics?

"Because I am very disturbed by what is happening in the country. I think we are in a bad place in the field of values. Our security situation is always problematic, but it is good, because we are a strong country with strong intelligence systems, a strong army, ISA and a strong institution and good commanders and we know How to handle events. I do not fear the Iranian bomb nor Hezbollah. They can do us a lot of harm, but they won't do us any harm. We know how to handle them, but I am disturbed by the growing rift in the country between Jews and Arabs and between secular and ultra-Orthodox. I believe there must be complete equality among all citizens and our existence depends on it. " 

But there was never equality between Jews and Arabs.

"It is true, but we must move towards closing gaps. I sincerely strive for a child raised in the Amona settlement and a child raised in the village of Manda to be given the same opportunities. Obviously we should be a state with a solid Jewish majority and Jewish character, so I support the Law of Return, but the Law Nationality is a completely unnecessary law because we do not have to define ourselves. We are defined in the Declaration of Independence. It is a scandal to me that did not introduce the word equality into national law. " 

Is your position on closing the gaps between secular and ultra-Orthodox Jews does not contradict the policy of orthodox claims torch on us and do not serve in the IDF, and therefore do not deserve rights?

"No. Our approach is similar. I too believe that haredim must attend the burden. I am very worried that if we continue to go in the current direction in which the ultra-Orthodox differentiate themselves, the gaps will never close. I have no problem that the ultra-Orthodox will not serve in the IDF. In my opinion, every young man at 18, regardless of whether he is Jewish, Arab or ultra-Orthodox, will have to face a Chief Recruiting Officer and say what he wants to do as part of his service for the state. In the IDF, there will be a national fire service, but it will be a year and a half duty. The same policy should apply to the young Arabs. " 

Cunning and Reliable 

With your permission, let's go back to the institution. When Netanyahu decided not to appoint you but Yossi Cohen to the head of the Shin Bet, did you feel we were wronged?

"I was not hurt, but I was very disappointed. It was certainly the prime minister's privilege to choose Yossi Cohen for the job. He had a glorious career and Netanyahu made his own decision. It's a legitimate decision. " 

Did you justify this decision?

“No. There were three candidates. He made a good choice, I obviously think he could have made a better choice had he chosen me. "

Did that leave any precipitation in you?

"No. You grow up in a hierarchical system that is getting narrower and narrower as you progress."

What qualities does a person need to be a good institution person?

"In a big way, he has to know how to make the environment work for him without knowing they work for him. It's his weapon."

What personal qualities does he need? Wisdom, cunning, credibility, courage?

"It's a lot more complex. There are many professions in the institution that need people with other qualities in each field. In general, you can say that the selection process is looking for a person you can trust, who will be trustworthy and yet be very cunning and that cunning will not be at the expense of reliability."

Didn't understand, are you looking for cunning or trustworthy people?

"Usually a person is trustworthy or crafty. It doesn't go together. But in the institution, people are looking for credibility but who will also know to be crafty and there are very few." 

Some of these traits you have acquired in the institution can help you in political life because politics is important to cunning.

"It's impossible to compare at all. In the institution you have no problem achieving the goal fraud when you face the enemy. In contrast, the Knesset is not a legitimate thing. In politics, the road is of great importance, however, in the institution's activities there were no boundaries and limitations and the mission was first and foremost."

Most of the actions that the institution does remain secret and, on the other hand, cases where publications were published, for example, a nightmare in which Mossad agents accidentally killed a young Moroccan named Ahmed Bushiki because they thought he was Ali Hassan Salameh from the "Black September" head, isn't it frustrating? "I don't think the public gets the impression that the institution has failures. It is true that Bellhammer has had a big fiasco. The fact that the institution is a successful body is partly due to the fact that it works to an end and takes on far greater risks than similar entities in other countries. The risks are calculated. In Dubai, for example, even One was not caught. Jordan in the Khaled Mash'al affair was a big push for planning and execution. "

Did you like the time you were at the institution?

"I really liked this life. It's a special life without routine. When you go out in the morning you don't know if at the end of the day you will come home or find yourself on a plane." 

"Not under pressure"

Are you angry at your white-blue friends who betrayed the ideas you believed in and joined a government led by Netanyahu?

"I don't use giveaway terminology because it has a different connotation, but they must have disappointed me a lot, and I was upset with them because they couldn't stand the pressure and they got in the way and they confused my eyes between what's important and what's not important. I'm convinced that Gantz and Ashkenazi were wrong."

In your estimation, the Likud-Blue cooperation will last?

"I am not convinced. Blue and White entered the government because its members thought they could make changes, but I do not believe this is a chance given Netanyahu's offensive against the legal system in opening his trial."  

Do you believe that the opposition led by Yair Lapid is capable of threatening the government and shortening its days?

"We intend to go to the Knesset for war. This government is private but not homogeneous and we will dismantle it. We have a mission and we need to succeed in it. That some blue and white ministers already have doubts about where they are. " 

Not frustrating those who used to be the deputy head of the institution to be a simple MK? What are your plans for action in the Knesset?

"I do not see any dignity in being a good MK. I am not scared or ashamed. The wisdom is not to be a minister in government but to act in a government I believe in. I intend to be an active MK in the Finance and Internal Affairs Committees and as a Foreign Minister.  



MK Ram Ben Barak (62) was born and raised in Nahalal. In 1975 he enlisted in the IDF and served as a fighter and officer in the General Staff Patrol. In his last position he was commander of a terrorist battalion. In 1981 he was released in the rank of captain. In 1984 he joined the Intelligence and Special Offices And held a variety of field positions and operational command in the Keshet wing.

In 2004, he was appointed head of the "Keshet" wing (responsible for intelligence gathering using technological means), then was head of operations and during that period he was responsible, among other things, for collecting and disclosing information on the establishment of the nuclear reactor in Syria. From 2011 to 2009 he was deputy and deputy head of the institution. He was then loaned to the IDF and served as Special Operations Coordinator. Later he went on a mission to the US and served as a research fellow at the Saban Middle East Policy Center at the Brookings Institute. In 2014, he was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Intelligence and the Ministry of Strategic Issues. In 2015, he ran for the position of head of the institution, but the prime minister favored Yossi Cohen. 

Ben Barak is a graduate of the National Security College and graduated with a Master's degree in Political Science and National Security from the University of Haifa. In 2015, he was appointed president of the Israeli startup "The Fifth Dimension" which closed and brought Benny Gantz there. Then he served as president of the Fortify Defense consulting firm. In January 2018, the Futures joined the party and placed 11th on its list for the 21st Knesset, and 26th on the blue-and-white list.

Ben Barak is married to Ayelet Amishav Ben Barak, a doctor in the pediatric meta-oncology department at Rambam Medical Center and lives in Nahalal. A couple has three children and three grandchildren.