Former Minister of Family, Children and Women's Rights at the end of the previous five-year term (from 2016 to 2017), Laurence Rossignol is known for her uncompromising feminist commitment. The current senator PS de l'Oise underlines that the feminization of the public service requires "a constant effort". According to her, the "catching up" operated in recent weeks by the executive should not mask the shortcomings of the first three years of Macron's five-year term. Especially since in the eyes of the Socialist there are pockets of ministerial resistance such as the Quai d'Orsay or Bercy. Not to mention political parties, with the notable exception of EELV.
A wave of appointments places women in senior positions in the civil service. Is this a turning point?
LAURENCE ROSSIGNOL. It is, in my opinion, a catch-up operation. The government initially took little interest in the feminization of the senior civil service, then became aware of the criticisms to which it was exposed and tried to bring itself up to standard. Not sure that this is enough because, to obtain lasting results, you need continuity and anticipation.
In what way, according to you, has there been a lack of interest?
Between 2017 and 2020, I observed a quantitative relaxation over the nominations. A reversal of priorities. However, the effort must be constant. Without a permanent concern to appoint women, to identify talents, to promote them, to prepare breeding grounds, that regresses.
Emmanuel Macron has however made gender equality the great cause of the five-year term ...
It's a lot of communication. Our country is led by a quartet of men, all from the same mold, the general secretary of the Elysee: the President, the Prime Minister, the general secretary of the Elysee, the chief of staff of Matignon. The other positions - president of the Assembly, president of the LREM group, party leader - are matched. Finally, the state apparatus remains in the male inter-self.
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Le Monde revealed a note from 2018 in which the councilors of the Elysee denounce remarks and misogynistic behavior "at the highest peak of the State". Does that surprise you?
No. It echoes words and an atmosphere that had already returned to my ears. We must salute the courage of these counselors. They took risks. The comments reported give the feeling of a certainty of impunity. You don't have to be passionate about feminist issues to know that thoughts about women's breasts are no longer tolerated. What does this tell us about the state today? The Minister of the Interior is the subject of an investigation, blamed for having used his influence and obtaining sex, the prefect of the Ile-de-France region is blamed for sexist remarks ... does a lot.
Both say they are innocent, and even “victim” for Gérald Darmanin.
The presumption of innocence is not in question. It is about ethics and setting an example. When he claims to be a “victim” or when he says “I'm choking”, Gérald Darmanin manipulates and twists words to his advantage.
When you were minister, did you deal with misogynistic behavior?
Personally little, probably thanks to the function! But I always had in mind that I had to protect and enforce my teams - an almost exclusively female cabinet - against the prevailing misogyny in the senior civil service. I have had to make phone calls for severe tune-ups.
And on the merits of the issues, what resistance have you encountered?
What we always hear is: “We would like to name women, but we don't find any. The worst resistance, ultimately, is inertia. We face a male ecosystem, which co-chooses, reproduces and always treats women as intruders.
What is your assessment of the Holland years?
A parity government, unprecedented. A fully-fledged ministry, disappeared since 2017. Legislative advances, including the 2014 law passed by Najat Vallaud-Belkacem for real equality between women and men: there was, from there, a real turning point on feminization. It required a lot of vigilance to ensure that the commitments were kept.
Did you sometimes feel like you were powerless?
Yes, with the impression of hitting a machine much stronger than me. We are sending you the image of "never happy". It is ungrateful. You turn into a notary's clerk, who counts the number of women on the list. Even now, I sometimes do it unconsciously! But when you are Minister of Women's Rights, you have a formidable partner: it is civil society. Finally, political parties, and this is common to all, lag behind public opinion.