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Demo against Corona measures in Berlin (on August 29th): "Whoever comes along has to be asked who they are having in common with"
Photo: Patrick Graf / imago images / Future Image
SPIEGEL:
At the weekend, tens of thousands took to the streets in Berlin against the German corona restrictions.
At times, demonstrators occupied the stairs to the Bundestag, some waved Reich flags.
How do you rate the processes?
Stamp:
Those were bad pictures, the process has to be dealt with, because apparently those responsible in Berlin were not sufficiently prepared for the situation.
I would particularly like to thank the police officers who carried out this difficult mission.
SPIEGEL:
How do you rate this protest movement?
Stamp:
I don't see any new movement at all, this is Pegida in XL format.
Now a few additional conspiracy theorists, esotericists and confused peace activists have joined.
SPIEGEL:
Some participants in the demonstration resist being placed in the right corner.
Stamp:
Anyone who runs along there has to be asked who they are messing with.
But regardless of these protests, we have to create new perspectives for those who are worried, whose professional existence is threatened by Corona.
We shouldn't pour the cornucopia over everyone, but invest more specifically in further qualifications, training and new creative forms of independence.
SPIEGEL:
In the spring, Thuringian FDP leader Thomas Kemmerich spoke at a demonstration in front of critics of the Corona policy in Gera.
Was that a one-off slip or is there a tendency towards this group of people in your party as well?
Stamp:
We learned from the weekend in Berlin that there are people from every political spectrum in society who are susceptible to confused messages.
But that is not a line of the FDP.
We want responsible relaxation and a stronger regionalization of protective measures.
The Free Democrats don't take to the streets with fans of aluminum hats, conspiracy theorists and anti-Semites.
SPIEGEL:
As Family Minister in North Rhine-Westphalia, you have been dealing with Corona for months.
Will the parents have to prepare for a new lockdown of the daycare centers in NRW in autumn?
Stamp:
There will be no new, area-wide lockdown of daycare centers and schools.
If need be, we will react locally to break the chains of infection.
SPIEGEL:
As Minister of Integration, you are also responsible for refugee issues.
Five years ago, at the height of the refugee movement, Chancellor Angela Merkel said her famous sentence: "We can do it."
What is your balance sheet?
Stamp:
We took in hundreds of thousands of refugees, sometimes we improvised, and overall it was a great achievement by civil society.
But the fundamental problems of migration, the impoverishment in EU camps on the Greek islands, drowning people in the Mediterranean, illegal migration to Germany with a simultaneous lack of workers in many areas, these problems remain unsolved.
We finally need the transition from a passive to an active refugee and migration policy.
We need more structure, we need a change from disordered to orderly migration.
That takes effort, and the Federal Government is doing too little.
"Seehofer is doing too little"
SPIEGEL: But
now fewer refugees are coming because of the Corona, the issue seems to have been pushed back.
Stamp:
That is precisely why I find the behavior of Interior Minister Horst Seehofer and Foreign Minister Heiko Maas irresponsible, because they limit themselves to coming to terms with the situation.
But I expect a design requirement, especially in the current German EU Council Presidency.
SPIEGEL:
What do you expect from Seehofer?
Stamp:
Migration policy means detailed work and high commitment.
I'm missing that.
Seehofer is doing too little.
We have problems in the area of returns and deportations, but we also need practical solutions for those who are tolerated.
I am worried that the German EU Council Presidency is not pushing the issue of migration forward with enough vigor and that in the end it will once again stick to declarations of intent.
For example, a new distribution mechanism and distribution centers at the EU's external borders are being announced - but both, I fear, will not work.
SPIEGEL:
What are your suggestions?
Stamp:
We have to conclude individual migration agreements with the main countries of origin, in which the withdrawal of illegal immigrants is clarified and in return the issue of visas for students and workers is promised.
SPIEGEL:
You recently visited the Moria refugee camp on Lesbos with North Rhine-Westphalia's Prime Minister Armin Laschet and then called for a uniform EU approach.
What is the problem?
Stamp:
Lack of coordination and lack of will.
In my opinion, we could solve the problem in Moria with the EU.
It is about 20,000 people who live there in Moria and other, smaller inhumane camps in intolerable conditions.
The federal states, including North Rhine-Westphalia, could jointly accept around 2000 particularly vulnerable people - for example single women or families with small or sick children.
Another 3000 places would have to be mobilized from the other EU countries.
A new camp could be set up on the island for another 5,000 people, modeled on Kara Tepe, a camp on Lesbos that meets international standards.
In return, Germany and the EU could offer the Greeks logistical help.
On the other hand, the Greek side could be asked to accommodate another 5000 on their mainland.
SPIEGEL:
But there are 5,000 left of 20,000 people in your plan.
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Prime Minister Armin Laschet (CDU) and Vice Prime Minister Stamp (behind) during the visit to the Moria refugee camp (on August 4th)
Photo: Dorothea Hülsmeier / picture alliance / dpa
Stamp:
I think it's realistic to get people of this size to return to their homeland.
For some time now, the UN International Organization for Migration has been offering Afghan migrants on Lesbos EUR 2,000 per capita in the event of a return; for a family of six, this is EUR 12,000 start-up capital in Afghanistan.
I understand that this is increasingly being used.
SPIEGEL:
But who should coordinate this on Lesbos and other islands?
Stamp:
The problem with the EU is that nobody takes central responsibility for this task.
I therefore advocate an EU special envoy who will take care of the situation in the Greek camps and also keep an eye on the difficult relations on the issue between Greece and Turkey.
Someone like the former Federal Minister of the Interior Thomas de Maizière would certainly have the format for it.
SPIEGEL:
In the past, as a minister, you also deported criminals; the Sami A case made nationwide headlines. The Refugee Council in North Rhine-Westphalia recently criticized you for bringing an Afghan who allegedly raped two girls into his Want to bring home.
What do you say to your critics?
Stamp:
Unfortunately there are people in the NGOs and also in the Refugee Council who make their concept of open borders the benchmark for everyone.
But if we want to achieve a broad social consensus, we have to consistently deport those who refuse to integrate and who become criminals.
Incidentally, this is the only way to protect the majority that integrate well.
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