Alain Juppé receives us in his office under the roof of the Constitutional Council (he has been sitting among the Sages since 2019), previously occupied by… Lionel Jospin.
A nod to history, in 1997, it was the latter who succeeded him at Matignon.
At just 75 years old, slender, tanned, the former mayor of Bordeaux seems regenerated since the infernal campaign of the right-wing primary in 2016. He published this Thursday, September 10, “My Chirac.
A singular friendship ”(Ed. Tallandier, 240 p., 19 euros), almost a year after the death of the former President of the Republic, whom he accompanied for nearly forty years, from the RPR to the UMP, from the town hall of Paris to the summit of power.
A book in the form of a posthumous letter to this "friend", in which, he confesses during the interview he gave to the Parisian - Today in France, "I speak as much of myself as of Chirac ".
Your book is captioned "A Singular Friendship".
Why singular?
ALAIN JUPPÉ
.
There are few examples of a president-prime minister who remained united until the end.
De Gaulle-Pompidou, it ended badly, Giscard and Chirac or Mitterrand and Rocard are not talking about it…
Why you, why him?
What founds this friendship is not a family or personal intimacy, I did not belong to the close circle of Jacques Chirac;
neither was he himself in the intimate circle of Pompidou, even if he was very close to him.
It was a friendship based on political values.
The glue was a certain vision of the role of man and woman politician, completely out of step with how it is perceived today.
He and I believed in the nobility of political commitment, to ensure that tomorrow is better than today.
Are there no more ideals among politicians?
The word ideal is no longer credible in the mouths of politicians, that's a shame.
There are, of course, personal ambitions.
But these are also based on the conviction that we can do something, improve people's lives.
I recently saw a report on the youngest mayor of France, aged 19.
It's interesting to hear this kid say his desire to revive his village, to open a new business there ...
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Our 1958 Constitution is still relevant?
Yes, she has shown her flexibility.
There would be some improvements to be made, but I have a duty of reserve and will not comment on the reforms in perspective.
But the citizens' demand to participate in the decision, even between two elections, must be taken more and more into account.
Is it a response to the current authority crisis?
All of this is ambiguous, contradictory.
People want to participate, but they want authority.
In my experience as mayor, I knew a neighborhood council where we discussed the problem of the direction of traffic in a street.
Half of the audience wanted the north-south direction, the other half south-north, it lasts an hour, two hours… Then a local rises at the back of the room and says to me: "We elected you to decide. , so you decide, and if we don't like it, we'll fire you in five years!
We want both a strong State and, at the same time, there is this requirement to participate in the decision.
You have to find the right balance.
In this regard, Chirac had this formula: “A chef is made to lead”… Was it love at first sight between you and him?
No, I prefer to reserve this term for other relationships… But there was a click, it's true.
When I first saw him I was impressed by his presence, he had the stature of a chef.
What attracted him to me?
Perhaps my pen, at the beginning, I put into words his thought, his way of expressing himself… it's difficult to write for others.
Above all, he had confidence, he said to himself: "This guy will not betray me.
"
Chirac "had confidence, he said to himself: this guy will not betray me" (here in January 1983, during the campaign for the municipal elections in Paris) ./ REBOURS / SIPA
Are you talking about your respective modesty, is it a key to your relationship?
Surely, we have also addressed each other throughout these nearly 40 years, while he was familiar with almost all political leaders.
Because the first time I meet him, he is Prime Minister and I am a technical advisor who has recently joined his cabinet.
And since he was his wife… We kept this habit, except at the very end: one day, I arrive at his bedside and he greets me with "ah, how are you Alain?
".
It shocked me.
He never missed you, but him?
Did he always support you at the time of the trial?
On the matter of the trial, I took full responsibility and I have nothing to reproach anyone else, at least not him.
Didn't you expect something else from him?
He was present at my side, supported me psychologically, morally.
During my stay in Canada, he never stopped reaching me on the phone and every time I came to Paris, I went to see him.
There has never been a break in our relationship.
I took the field, taught a year in Quebec, but when I returned in 2006 his idea was that I be a candidate
(Editor's note: in the 2007 presidential election)
, it was clear.
I had to explain to him that my condemnation was still too fresh in the minds, that I had not yet restored my democratic health, if I may say so.
That I was not in a position to be a candidate, especially since there was a natural candidate who was Sarkozy.
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Jacques Chirac, the man who said no to the war in Iraq
This book helps to rehabilitate his heritage?
We greeted the man but minimized his action ...
I retain several salient facts in his action.
Even his opponents recognize three merits in him: the speech on the Vel d'Hiv, in which he goes all the way, against the Gaullist doxa, assuring that it was not France which bore the responsibility but Vichy;
qualification and entry into the euro;
the rejection of the war in Iraq.
And I recall that in 1995-1997, we did a hell of a job, upgrading nuclear deterrence, professionalizing the armed forces and eliminating military service, saving health insurance… To say that he has been a "lazy king"
(Editor's note: as Nicolas Sarkozy had suggested)
is a denial.
He is a statesman who will have marked his time and his people.
The emotion that arose at his death was deep.
Few Presidents of the Republic have been able to create such a solid link with the French.
I cite in my book the example of this 17-year-old kid who comes to see me crying, and when I am surprised by telling him that he has not known that time, he replies: "Chirac c ' is France!
"
VIDEO. Jacques Chirac: why the French love him so much
Jacques Chirac, like Nicolas Sarkozy besides, had the will to go to the top of power.
And you ?
I confess that, perhaps, I was not totally devoured by the ambition to be President of the Republic.
I was ambitious, certainly not naive, not a chicken of the year.
But ready to sacrifice everything to this consuming passion?
I do not know.
The answer, it is in the result
(Editor's note: his defeat in November 2016 in the primary of the right against François Fillon)
.
You also write to have blamed the blow harshly ...
Yes, that's certainly where I decided to quit politics.
After running for the Elysée, I was not going to become Minister of Split Peas.
At almost 75 years old, it was time to move from active functions to functions of wisdom.
Even if the average age of the American presidential candidates
(Editor's note: Donald Trump is 74, Joe Biden, 77)
leads me to revise this judgment
(he laughs)
.
You feel, you write in these pages, "puffs of nostalgia" in returning to your political life alongside Chirac.
But no bitterness?
Any.
The only thing that pained me was the reputation I was given for being tough, cold, insensitive, technocratic.
Because I believe it is not true.
“I am deeply convinced that we must change our modes of production, consumption and travel.
But, on the other side, there are also ayatollahs.
»/ LP / Aurélie Ladet
Does the project of the new Bordeaux municipality, EELV, seem realistic to you?
Do you find them sectarian, as we hear from certain ecologists?
We'll see.
I feel totally committed to the ecological cause.
The development of the quays in Bordeaux, for example, has made it possible to plant thousands of trees and Bordeaux has long been a city for bicycles.
I am deeply convinced that we must change our modes of production, consumption and travel.
But, on the other side, there are also ayatollahs.
Collapsology, survivalism, systematic degrowth, rejection of technological progress… All of this is not my cup of tea.
When you think there are some who rent underground bunkers to prepare for the end of the world.
The fear of the end of the world is not new either.
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"We are in the fog", you write about post-containment France.
What dangers lie in wait for us?
We run the risk of starting over as before.
Do we not hear that we must restart the economic machine?
This "re" worries me.
This machine is going to have to be fundamentally changed, but there are obstacles that will make the journey long and difficult.
We must also accept that things are complex, which is difficult to accept in today's democratic debate.
Look at the history of beets.
Where is the point of balance between, on the one hand, the possible ruin of a sector, and on the other, the need to remove substances that must disappear from the landscape?
If there were simple solutions, it would know.
Populism, like fanaticism, is caricature, it is not the search for nuance or moderation.
The "new world" praised by Emmanuel Macron in 2017, we are obviously not yet reading you?
I have always been wary of formulas, like this one, or François Mitterrand's “changing life”.
The world is changing.
I remain optimistic and confident.
Humanity has never stopped adapting, finding solutions.
Does this confidence in the future also apply to France?
But yes !
The French are wonderful.
At the same time unbearable, sometimes schizophrenic, rebellious but, at the same time, so generous, young people in particular.
See how many people volunteer in associations.
This human wealth makes me optimistic about our rebound capacities.
Really not tempted by a comeback?
No !
No !
No !
I am not a ghost!
(laughs)
.
The only temptation that itches me is to talk, to give my opinion on Lebanon, for example, this country that I love.
But I imposed myself silence on entering the Constitutional Council.
And I'm very happy here to think about how to reconcile contradictory principles: individual freedom and the safeguard of public order, for example.
I have the feeling that I am leading a fight in defense of citizens' rights and freedoms.
In the years to come, perhaps it will be crucial ...
“My Chirac.
A singular friendship ”, by Alain Juppé will be released Thursday, September 10 at the Tallandier editions./DR