Ángel Gabilondo, in an archive image.Ballesteros / EFE
Ángel Gabilondo (San Sebastián, 71 years old) prioritizes that the PSOE provide solutions to the pandemic and its economic and social consequences against the possibility of raising a motion of censure to try to displace Isabel Díaz Ayuso from power.
Lacking Cs' key votes for that operation, his strategy has earned him internal and external criticism.
That does not make him doubt: he says that his conviction is that the priority is to fight inequality in Madrid.
Question
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What has characterized the management of Díaz Ayuso?
Reply
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One of the things that I have criticized is that the management has had a personalistic tinge, which has led to make it, with a certain will, I say in quotation marks, a character of whom we are all attentive to every sentence that he says, to each occurrence that I can present, I suppose that with each reflection I make, and I do not doubt that I say important thoughts.
What I am saying is that this cannot be a plug, or a veil, of social, educational, health, economic policies ... It has not happened to me, but it seems that we have been looking at the president without looking deeply to the entire Community.
She has put as a strategy that we shift our gaze, through her, to the Government of Spain.
And we have demonized him.
We already have a culprit for things!
The Government of Spain!
That worked a little better at the beginning, but it has been spent, the argument has been so emptied, that out there they don't go very far.
We need to talk more about ourselves.
Of what happens in Madrid.
Madrid does not seduce the doctors and teachers it needs
Madrid studies limiting more the capacity of the hospitality industry
Madrid asks for "urgent" help from the Government
P
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And what is happening with the pandemic in the Community?
R
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It makes me uneasy to see that there is also a covid inequality, or an inequality of the pandemic, which produces very different effects in small homes, in difficult work situations.
There must be social and housing resources for these people, who if they want to confine themselves, they cannot even do it in their own home.
The pandemic illuminates inequality, highlights the things that exist in an extraordinary Community such as Madrid, which is also full of deficiencies and inequalities.
What we have been saying for years becomes more evident in extremely serious situations like this.
P
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The pandemic has uncovered the problems of public services: lack of doctors, teachers, resources.
Is it an advantage, because it forces us to take action, or does it lead to a crisis of faith in the system?
R
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I am reluctant to find the slightest advantage to the pandemic.
But the idea of discovering indicates that there were many things covered up, covered up with a speech from an arrogant, rich Madrid, which is also an expensive Madrid and an unequal Madrid.
What must be done is to find the forces to reform, reinforce and transform what is unsustainable with and without a pandemic.
Only when serious problems come, they tend to focus more on those who have the most weakness or vulnerability.
And it is the case.
Nobody can follow anyone with the discourse that inequality are obsessions, or the will to want to weaken the government.
It is not born of that.
It was born from the verification of life in Madrid.
You can not patients who have a different impact depending on their social situation.
That is unfortunate.
P
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And do you have those forces to reform?
R
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Absolute.
Forces and reasons.
Both.
The forces and reasons are born from convictions, principles, values, help, drive, the perception that we must go together.
There is no lack of energy.
Energy is not just a psychological or mood state.
Much is born of convictions.
P
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And does the PSOE want you in that task?
Sometimes it seems that he wants to take you to another place.
One day ombudsman, another minister ...
R
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I suppose, in my will to try to understand things positively, that this means that they consider that I am worth for some other things as well.
I make it a recognition, rather than a disqualification.
I am focused on where I am.
If at any time you think I should do something else, just talk to me.
The only thing I ask is to continue working in the public service with a social and reality-reforming dimension.
It's what brought me here.
Right now I am fully committed to the work I am in, with everything I am, with everything I have, and with everything as I am.
You know how I am as I am.
I try to learn from the criticism.
I take them as a push to do things better.
But it is also true that if I am here it is because I am who I am, not because I am someone else.
P
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El Intermedio, a prime-time program on La Sexta, did a sketch about his disappearance, making fun of his opposition work.
Have you been present enough in front of Díaz Ayuso?
R
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I have done more than 38 interviews in the pandemic, I have made that effort, it is part of my obligation.
The criticism is made in a context of humor, and I treat it with respect to the program and who made it.
Then, humorous things, one can have a lot of fun, little, nothing, and they can even be painful.
Beyond humor, that I value that program as a great program, and I have great respect for whoever does it, it doesn't seem entirely fair to me.
It doesn't seem that way to me.
I am dedicated, truly dedicated to what I do.
I have a certain way of doing politics that allows it to be ironic, and I respect that too.
Can anyone be surprised that I respect him?
Well I respect it.
That I ask for respect for myself?
Well also.
P
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Don't you feel respected?
R
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In general, I feel very respected, despite these criticisms that can sometimes be harsh or sour.
From a very young age I have thought that there are many ways to do things well.
It is a very important phrase for me.
There are many ways to be a good journalist, to be a good politician, to be good people.
There is no standard.
There are politicians who are more intense, more aggressive, more incisive, more activists, with a greater presence in the networks, and others, among whom I include myself, with a certain reflective will, argumentative, a bit circular.
How good is it?
That we can work together and have common goals.
P
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He says that there are jokes that like a lot, little or nothing, and even that hurt.
Did it hurt?
R
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Experts say that you don't have to say much about what causes you pain because then all your enemies insist on that.
It made me feel somewhat uncomfortable.
It dislocates me a little.
I save the word pain for other very important matters that affect my life a lot, but I find it disconcerting.
Am I working here, a person of many years, dedicating myself with my whole life to this, and now the perception that I give the same is that I am indifferent or passive?
It gives me a bewilderment that I would not call pain, but discomfort.
One can even doubt oneself, but then I find many reasons in other people that confirm that I keep doing this.
P
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Should I have registered a motion of censure against Isabel Díaz Ayuso?
R
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In this context, with this situation, seeing how people are, I do not say that it is not objectionable, nor have I ever ruled out that it should be done, but of course it will not be necessary to do it so that they do not speak badly of me, or do it well .
We have to do it thinking about the citizens, in solving their problems.
There is a situation of real concern, of real alert, due to the covid.
People ask us to come together to resolve that, and to leave other issues behind, which does not exclude them.
Simply, politics is also the art of knowing how to temporarily prioritize actions.
And right now the top priority is the pandemic.
P
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Why not be tougher and more incisive?
R
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They called me knowing that I was going to make a certain type of opposition, with ingredients that for many are great values and that others find to be weaknesses.
That is why it is important not to personalize the policy.
You have to do it together.
P
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Since this summer, José Manuel Franco, leader of the Madrid Socialists, has threatened with the motion, and you stop it.
Are there different strategies, or do they play good cop and bad cop?
R
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There are no different strategies.
As far as I know, we have both said that (the motion) is not ruled out, that the resolution of the pandemic must be prioritized, that the Government is reprehensible, failed.
I feel totally attached to the words.
They are styles, ways of saying.
Good cop, bad cop… we don't really play that.
P
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You won the elections.
Would you be willing to cede the presidency to Ignacio Aguado, leader of Cs, in exchange for him joining the motion, as Franco raised?
R
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In my opinion, if there is at any time a vote of no confidence, the candidate has to be from the most voted party, the PSOE.
And I have been number one on that list.
I think I am the candidate.
I am willing.
With the same naturalness I say that if you think something else is better, then it can be done.
But in my opinion, that other thing, and I want to make it very clear, is a president of the PSOE.
It is my opinion
P
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That is a no like a cathedral.
R
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Well I do not know.
It's my position.
And I say that clearly.
And it seemed to me to hear the general secretary for organization of the PSOE, Mr. Ábalos, say exactly that.
P
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What do you think that the president did not mention the possibility of deciding restrictions during the debate on the state of the region, to announce them immediately afterwards?
R
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I think that is wrong.
It is an institutional lack of respect.
P
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The Assembly has almost no activity, and the commission of inquiry into what happened in the residences, where 6,000 people have died during the pandemic, does not finish starting.
Is there a blocking attempt by the majority of PP, Cs and Vox?
R
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I hope not.
It would be tremendous.
What is certain is that we cannot find many facilities.
We did not find the flexibility to activate the commission.
Our will is not to make a judgment.
It is knowing to transform, to modify, and to assume responsibilities.
This affects the respect that institutions deserve.