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The friends (very friends) of López Obrador

2020-10-25T04:08:45.847Z


EL PAÍS brings together the three cartoonists and a columnist with whom the president of Mexico is used to chatting in the National Palace and who draw a non-traditional profile of the president


Since Andrés Manuel López Obrador came to power in 2018, he has made clear on many occasions who some of his enemies are: former presidents, owners of the media, critical columnists or businessmen.

Against them he directs his darts and denunciations every morning.

But, and who are your friends? With whom do you eat paella at the National Palace?

The president himself revealed in August on social networks that the cartoonists Antonio Helguera, Rafael Barajas

El Fisgón,

José Hernández and

La Jornada

columnist

Pedro Miguel are those “intelligent and critical friends”.

And what do they talk about? What topics interest you?

What do those who speak in your ear tell you on a Saturday afternoon?

EL PAÍS sat with them around a coffee and some shells in a patio in Coyoacán to talk about their coming to power, the intellectuals, feminism, the role of

moneros

in

Q4

, the division in Morena or Venezuela.

Only rock or football was left out "which doesn't interest him at all."

His friends say that they have never seen him look at a woman's legs and thus, between reproaches and good humor, jumping from one topic to another, the conversation passed:

THE COUNTRY.

They come from spending four hours in the National Palace.

What did the president give them to eat?

José Hernández:

Paella.

Very rich.

Pedro Miguel:

And a chilito en nogada.

And coffee with some cupcakes.

Q.

Was the family there?

PM

One of the sons was at the meal.

Snooper:

Two

PM

Oh, of course, Jesús Ernesto arrived later.

JH

took us to the department that Felipe Calderón had built.

We did not enter, but what he wanted to show us is that the access door to the apartment has armored glass.

PM

It's a little door about the height of Calderón.

EF

Your home is

a normal apartment and normal furniture, not from the 15th century.

JH

And he also showed us a patio where he told us that Calderón practically had an armored dome built.

Antonio Helguera:

Yes, it damaged the structure of the palace and he had it removed.

An armored glass dome that was sinking the Palace.

And they had to remove it.

Pedro Miguel:

For atomic bombs.

Oh, and he told us a wonderful thing.

He told us: "Those chairs in which you are sitting cost 250,000 pesos each."

THE COUNTRY.

They have known López Obrador for a long time.

Has changed?

EF

With Andrés Manuel it happens to me very often that I do not agree with things he says.

But now, my reflex is to ask myself: "What am I not understanding?"

And yes, I realize that very often, in the long run, he is right, and you see this in the long run.

This basically tells you that he is a very sophisticated political leader.

It is curious because this photo that they took of us (the one published by AMLO on Twitter) they want to present as an act of official cartoonists.

But it is not like that, we are members of a movement.

Ah

long time ago

EF

That we come with him, I since the eighties, Toño since the nineties, Pepe since the nineties, Pedro ...

AH

Don't you remember when we made the front against the economic solidarity pact?

It was in December 1987.

EF I

mean, sorry, wanting to simplify this is, basically, seeing us or seeing that photograph with the logic of PRI presidentialism.

That is to say, this is another phenomenon, and there is one thing that I think is important: What is at stake, as Helguera rightly says, is the fight against the neoliberal model and logic.

It is not just a Mexican lawsuit, eh, it is a phenomenon that is taking place all over the planet and that in few places has advanced as far as Mexico has reached.

It must be understood that in this process we are fighting with extremely sophisticated and powerful forces that include, among other things, the International Monetary Front, the Washington government, the Group of Seven, the international extreme right ...

The country.

How do you see the daily criticism of the press?

PM

I'm going to give you a reflection.

What would you think of a society in which 95% of the media is in the hands of the state?

Could you call it democracy?

or that 95% of the media was in the hands of the church?

Could it be called democracy?

Or that 95% of the media were in the hands of the unions, would it be democratic?

Now, what do you think of a society in which 95% of the media is in the hands of entrepreneurs?

THE COUNTRY.

Does this apply to the left-wing media?

Have they given up their critical role to become a belt drive?

PM

No.

EF

No, of course not.

As the question is so broad, I would tell you that in no way has it not been.

And proof of this is how these media on the left operate, which are very few, which are also media that are linked to civil society, which have a base that the others do not have.

AH

Let me answer.

Let's give it names.

La Jornada,

yes?

EF

El Chamuco.

AH

La Jornada

was the only outlet that covered the López Obrador movement since the 1990s, not to mention that it was the only newspaper that covered the National Democratic Front.

EF

And the Zapatistas.

AH

It was the only newspaper that was not dedicated to slander Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas in 88, 94, and so on.

That is, it is a line of congruence and consistency.

Not that they have aligned themselves with anything.

It's the same old line.

That is to say, the triumph of López Obrador without La Jornada is not explained, for example, because he is a member, as Fisgón says, linked to society, he is a means for society and is not owned by businessmen, it is owned by journalists.

It is the great difference between the media on the right ...

JH

As Pedro says, 90% of the media are from businessmen.

La Jornada

is the only traditional newspaper that does not belong to a businessman.

THE COUNTRY.

Will you want to be reelected?

JH

No, man ...

AH

No, no, no.

EF Let's

see, one of the things he talked about there that was very clear to us is that he was happy because he had four years to go before he retired.

JH

To retire, it said.

EF

To retire.

AH

Is that he sees it as a cycle that started from the seventies, his political work, and this is the culmination of all his political work.

EF

Well yes, he leaves it.

AH

Here it ends and he retires, and it is up to someone else to move on.

He did everything he had to do, which was not small.

EF

did well.

AH

Aha and now.

It is very clear to him.

I came up here.

JH

And it's still missing, and he's not lying that he intends to do double the work as if there were two.

Work twice.

THE COUNTRY.

Did your leadership emerge in 2006 with the sit-in?

JH

No, it was outrage.

EF

Yes.

PM

It was lawlessness.

JH

It was the lawlessness with his antecedent of his acting as head of government of Mexico City.

The response of the people in the lawlessness is not understood if there is not a precedent of how he did politics and how he made a sharp difference compared to the Fox presidency, right?

He is a

sui generis

president

in the headquarters of the government of Mexico City.

The violation was also national because it was trying to prevent his candidacy.

EF

Close the way to the pointer.

AH

However, now that Pedro was talking about the 2006 fraud, for me, and I think everyone will agree, the issue goes back to the other fraud of '88 when Salinas was imposed and neoliberalism was imposed in Mexico.

I think it became clear to us there, at least to me, I know to Snoop too, that the issue was neoliberalism and the thugs who came with it, looting, corruption, injustice, the concentration of wealth, infiltration of drug trafficking, etcetera.

At that time, the option for many of us was Cárdenas, Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas, but Cárdenas was not a social leader.

He is a son of a politician, of a former president.

Somehow it comes from a political elite.

He was not a social leader.

EF He

was a

junior.

PM

From a family clan.

AH

He was not the figure.

In other words, at the time we all went with him and an important social movement was created in 1988 around Cárdenas, but he did not know how to sustain it.

Later, when López Obrador appeared, he came little by little from Tabasco, right?

it begins with their local struggles there in Chontalpa, the issue of contamination from oil wells, and so on.

He was also a candidate in 88. Right?

They cheated him, yes.

He participates in elections there, they cheat him there, they repress him, they persecute him and his movement is growing and he has been arriving in Mexico City, making his - what's his name? - his exoduses.

So he is a social leader who starts from the bottom.

He was and is the figure that was necessary to unite society against neoliberalism, but of course it took many years because it cannot be done from one day to the next.

I mean, that's where López Obrador comes from and my interest in him has arisen ever since.

Isn't it true, Fis, that we went to see you in Tabasco?

EF

Yes, of course.

And we went to visit political prisoners.

AH

To his fellow prisoners in Tabasco.

That was in the early nineties.

Since then we already wanted it to be him, and it is not him, but the movement that he built, because he built it with society of course, but the contrast between Cárdenas and him draws my attention.

Cárdenas was definitely a

junior

as you say.

JH

I think the difference between Cárdenas and López Obrador can be seen in a detail, it may be small, but it is not.

In 1988, after the electoral fraud that imposed Salinas with the Zócalo to burst after the fraud, Cárdenas tells all of us who are in the Zócalo ...

"Go home."

In fact, that's the phrase, right?

He returned us, sent us back to our home.

In 2006, with the Zócalo to bursting, López Obrador said: "We stayed here and it's the sit-in."

The great difference between someone who is not actually a social leader, can be a democratic politician, with democratic interests, not a technocrat as was the group that was coming to power at that time, but who is not a social leader, against a character who yes he is a social leader.

Unlike what it says ...

THE COUNTRY.

What have they learned?

JH

What happened to me was what El Fisgón was saying, that López Obrador does something, says something and I say: “It's wrong.

It's a mistake, a big blunder ”, and then I understand.

One of the things that happened to me when the six-year term began was this in the mornings and this of being specifically fighting with the

Reforma

, grabbing two or three media and being every day fighting with them.

I said, “What need is there for that?

It's wrong ”, but, I tell you, it is a trap because you are not fighting with one of the media, you are not having a media fight but a political one.

What has happened?

That the political parties after the 2018 election almost disappeared.

The main parties, three political parties, are on the verge of extinction.

So, there is not really an opposition articulated in political parties or in political bodies.

What did these opposition figures do?

They went to the media.

So, the

Reformation

became not a newspaper, not a mass media, but a political body that is doing politics for the president.

So, the president is answering him, doing politics too.

THE COUNTRY.

Does the distancing from groups traditionally linked to the left make you sad: ecologists, feminists, Zapatistas ...?

PM

Look, I think there is a frank disillusionment of sectors of the middle class that have been in activism ... Zapatismo never was.

Zapatismo is in its own logic.

But I can tell you that there are social movements, organizations that supported López Obrador.

I give you a very simple example: the democratic sector of the teaching profession, the electricians.

JH

No, the electricians did not support.

PM

The base, yes.

JH

The base, yes.

The leadership is something else.

PM

The tankers, yes.

I mean, of course they supported.

JH

The leadership is another.

PM

Those movements are still with

lopezobradorismo

, I have no doubt.

Suddenly there are some dissident groups that are demonstrating in Michoacán, five that put a tent in the Zócalo, but the bulk of them are involved with the fourth transformation.

What about middle class NGOs?

That they are environmentalists, feminists, etcetera.

Well, look, I think they had a great illusion because they told a lie.

They told the lie that López Obrador was proposing, 'For the good of all, first ... the middle class' and it was not.

And what happens?

When you have to benefit tens of millions and for that you harm tens of thousands, you harm tens of thousands, because those tens of thousands have savings, they have a surplus, they have the ability to move, they have the possibility of getting other jobs and the tens of million no.

So, some have been left unemployed, they have lost contracts, they have run out of subsidies because it turns out that the NGOs were OSG, that is to say, governmental organizations because they lived off the budget, as has been demonstrated.

Well yes, right?

So, of course, so they are furious.

Not only did it not help them, but it hurt them, right?

Well yes, I understand that they are furious and are artists, activists, scientists, academics.

Hey, how have academics, researchers, lived with undersecretary salaries, undersecretary income?

Of course, it does not fit into their heads that they are privileged, they do not understand it, they do not understand that they were having a much higher standard of living than that of a researcher, an academic ...

JH

From any country.

PM

… from a country where half the population is in poverty.

So, there is a reallocation of budgets that has caused that specific discomfort and hence, all the attacks, but, look, I believe that fundamentally they are unjustified attacks.

The environmentalist ...

JH

These are things they use to attack.

PM

Look, the environmental attack: "It is an oil government, it is interested in refineries."

Every government in the world is interested in refineries, huh.

In other words, whoever tells me otherwise is lying.

Be it Norway, be it Finland, be it South Korea, they want refineries and Mexico too, man, it does have oil.

Second, there is a program to substantially increase the share of renewables.

It is not wind, it is not photovoltaic, it is not tidal, that is, it is not in line with the field of interests of energy transnationals, it is in line with the country's energy sovereignty.

They are the hydroelectric plants that allowed them to rust for thirty years.

They let them rust, you know what for?

To cut the state's electricity production and let in the private ones.

EF

You were talking about the issue of women.

There is one thing that is not in the sights, let's say, of the media more than the

mainstream

media

¸ right?

And it is the following: the largest women's collective, the largest feminist collective in the country is in Morena and in Q4.

Feminism is diverse and is the great movement of our time, but to think that it is not in Morena is nonsense and I am going to give you just two pieces of information that are very clear: Not long ago, now that the CNDH took over and all that stuff, eleven women's groups, 65 study circles signed a letter.

In other words, there are thousands of people who are there, and eight hundred and so many activists, all of whom identify with the fourth transformation.

I also want to tell you that never in recent history, and we can review this with complete peace of mind, that is to say with certainty, there have been so many advances in terms of the prosecution of justice in favor of women, never.

So let's put it all in context, right?

THE COUNTRY.

Form and substance are failing

PM

No, let's see… Yes, he has an old-fashioned and out-of-date speech, and it irritates a lot.

EF

To certain sectors.

PM

To certain sectors of feminism, but, look, I would tell you: Yes, there is a discourse that is totally out of date.

I have no problem in recognizing it, let's say.

I think we've discussed it with him.

But let's see, there is a substantial fact.

Who is the Secretary of the Interior, the first woman to occupy that secretariat, and what is her speech?

And what is he in charge of?

Well, she is in charge of taking care of all the problems of women.

She is the secretary of the government.

Which means that if the president dies, she is in office.

It is the most important position in the cabinet.

What is Olga Sánchez Cordero's speech on gender?

I think it is not an outdated speech, I think it is a constructive, proactive speech, but the person who appointed it was López Obrador.

AH

Yes, but also, what a thing.

When she talks about women's issues, they don't fight her.

When the secretary of the interior talks about women's issues, and she sees that the lady is radical.

Very feminist but when she speaks the note appears hidden.

In other words, the media does not highlight it.

For presenting this government as a macho and anti-feminist government, but they shut the government secretary's mouth, they do not publish it, they do not broadcast when she speaks.

So who is the macho?

EF

That is part of the media battle.

It is the battle for the agenda.

That is why the mornings are so important.

PM

It must also be said that López Obrador is right when he denounces the infiltrations of the right in the feminist movement, because he sees the organization of Las Brujas del Mar. I do not know if he is a feminist or if he is rather a felipist.

THE COUNTRY.

Has being AMLO's friends had any consequences?

JH

When López Obrador uploaded that photo to social networks, a colleague friend sent me a message on WhatsApp, he says: “What happened?

How was that?"

I say: “Well, nothing.

He invited us to eat ”.

He answers: "How crazy that the president invites you to lunch."

I say: “No, that is, we have known each other for 25 years.

It is something very common ”.

The unusual thing is not that he invites us to lunch, the strange thing is that he is now the president.

JH

And after that photo, of course, criticism rained down on us, they made photomontages.

EF

Look, I'll tell you.

Those who did not love us, love us less, and those who loved us, love us more.

That's it.

PM

No, you can smoke, it's a public building, that's very sad.

Look, he invited us, he gave us a little tour, about how the rooms are, right? Of the palace, it was not a complete tour and… It does force me.

I mean, the palace has a majesty.

The offices and these things, well.

JH

Imposes and at the same time it's a bit outrageous, right?

AH

But not as much as Los Pinos.

Because the National Palace is elegant, majestic, but elegant.

PM

Los Pinos is naco.

It is like the airplane.

EF

There is history in the National Palace.

And he understands all of that.

He does handle all of them, this ... The symbolic speech understands it perfectly.

JH

On one occasion he told us… well: “We arrived here and there was absolutely nothing from Pre-Hispanic Mexico, nothing.

So, we are preparing some spaces to put monuments there ”.

AH

Yes, the indigenous was denied there.

(…)

AH I

mean, it's not the first time we've met him.

It's not the first time you've eaten… What's more, didn't you come to eat at this house one day?

EF

Yes, of course, to dinner actually.

AH

Aha.

We also went to eat at his house in Villahermosa or at his apartment.

I mean, we've seen it many times.

We have talked to him many times.

We have eaten with him.

I would not say that he is my friend as much, as well as Pedro, yes, but I do have a close relationship with him.

It is not unusual to see him.

PM He

is a partner.

AH

What happens is that now he is president.

EF

Which is also intelligent and with whom you can talk many things.

AH

No, well, not only that, but you learn something.

He's very funny because his opponents think he's an idiot and he's crazy.

Well, he tricked them.

He is a very bright man and with a knowledge of Mexican history that you shit.

The man teaches when he sits down to speak and I keep my nose shut because I learn.

JH

Actually, the talk at lunch was like a morning.

He began to speak.

The first hour or half an hour was… on Madero, before Porfirio Díaz or… But basically on Madero.

EF

Look, I just wrote a book about Madero, about cartoons and Madero.

The investigation took me years, and I am doing an investigation on Daniel Cabrera and the Son of Ahuizote.

He talks to you ... That is, things that I just studied, he has them present, he handles them naturally, they are on his hard drive, I am acquiring his knowledge and I am working on it and everything, he already handles it as part of their common language.

So he's a very smart guy and he's a guy who knows.

JH

To our surprise, he showed us a room where he meets with the cabinet, who put a plaque on him and is called: "Daniel Cabrera Room."

AH You have

just mentioned Daniel Cabrera, a cartoonist from the beginning of the century, etcetera.

To our surprise, he showed us a room where he meets with the cabinet, who put a plaque on him and is called: “Daniel Cabrera Room”.

And inside it says: "The forgotten ones", and inside it is full of photographs of characters, that is, he even did it for years.

EF

Social fighters.

AH

Even Lucio Cabañas, Genaro Vázquez Rojas, this ...

EF

Carlos Monsiváis, Gutiérrez Vega.

AH

Lots of people.

PM

Roberto Castillo.

It is a boardroom that houses the presidential staff.

PM

The only consequence of the food is that I have received calls from people who want work and they say: "Hey, you who eat with the president, get me, right?"

Oh well, fuck it.

We are not a transmission belt.

We do not nurture anything.

We really talk as friends.

In other words, we do not have a specific role to do towards the presidency because his true source of nutrition is his tours.

If he is with the pulse of the national feeling, it is because he spends his time touring the country as he has always done.

It is not through us.

AH

From the moment we believe that we are the umbilical cord, we are already worth it.

PM

what he wanted, to be with his friends, with his colleagues, but it is not that we pass on information to him.

Sometimes, personally he has summoned me to help him formulate an issue or in textual terms, nothing more.

EF

It is very different. Suddenly we had, that is, sometime in times of the PRI, especially the PRI, the PRI politicians called us and they did not care about the country, this country is concerned about the country, eh.

I can tell you that the bond he has with people is enormous, it is very strong.

Just as he spoke with us, when he goes to Campeche he talks to the base, when he goes to Nayarit ...

JH

Or the lectures.

Since I've known him at these meetings.

For example, we coincide on several Monsivais birthdays.

PM

My perception is that in the national palace there is a commoner and that bursts the liver of the middle class and the upper class of this country.

It is not only that their interests affect them, that they have to pay taxes ... that they cannot steal money.

But the cherry on the cake is that there is a commoner representing millions of commoners in their sacred space.

That rots them.

JH

Interests and privileges

I mean, what weighs on Krauze?

In other words, obviously business, but also privileges.

He can continue doing his business, but he no longer has the right to the door in Los Pinos.

It no longer has that influence that it had on them.

Friends or official 'moneros'

AH

And the

underlying

issue, and that is the important thing, because that is what you lose sight of, the underlying issue is resistance against neoliberalism.

Because, for example, today they tell us: "No, you are government officials."

Let's see, yes, asshole, of a government that is anti-neoliberal.

So what were they waiting for?

What the hell were they expecting?

We have dedicated our entire professional life to that.

I all my monkeys are against neoliberalism.

Well this is what I expected.

If they call me an official monero, you know what?

Much honor and delighted with the label.

I wear it here, but official of this government, not of the PRI or the PAN.

Fuck me not.

EF

There is one thing that is often lost sight of in relation to this process and that is the fact that… In other words, López Obrador is the head of a movement.

We have been part of that movement for a long time and it is effectively a movement against the neoliberal logic that was implanted in Mexico since the time of Salinas.

He is also a leader, Andrés Manuel, with whom you can fight, with whom you can argue, he is a man of ideas, he is a profound man, he is a man who knows the history of Mexico.

THE COUNTRY.

What dimension do you give to the 4T?

EF

There is one thing I want to point out that I think is important.

What is at stake, as Helguera says so well, is the fight against the neoliberal model and against neoliberal logic.

It is not just a Mexican lawsuit, eh, it is a phenomenon that is taking place throughout the entire planet and that in few places has advanced to where it has advanced in Mexico.

It must be understood that in this process we are fighting with extremely sophisticated and powerful forces that include, among other things, the International Monetary Front, the government of Washington, the G-7, the international extreme right ...

AH

The transnationals.

EF

And with all his allies, with Vox, with the Republican Party, with the Tea Party, with all that.

PM

And the Democratic Party.

EF

The democratic party, of course, and that they also have a strategy against these governments, and that strategy is basically based on disinformation campaigns.

The pillar of the strategy to overthrow these governments is that, is to carry out discrediting and disinformation campaigns.

So, for example, that in the middle of the infodemic they accuse the president or accuse the president of seeking to limit freedom of expression, that favors the infodemic, it is part of the strategy.

First, the accusation itself is ridiculous.

If there is a rain of lies, you cannot say that there is a lack of freedom.

That is, there are so no limits to freedom, that lies circulate freely.

The other thing is that this becomes part of the strategy of the infodemic, it is part of the counterrevolutionary strategy of the cycle… come on, of the neoliberal counterrevolution, it is part of the neoliberal arsenal.

AH

And that is what all the governments of the left in Latin America have been subjected to.

That of Lula, that of Dilma, that of Cristina Kirchner, that of Venezuela

EF

The one with Correa.

AH

The one from Venezuela.

PM

Evo's.

EF

And I'm sorry to mention it, but in this game we must point out one thing that is important: the role played by the large media consortia, including EL PAÍS.

Because all these consortia defend specific interests and are linked to specific interests.

I can't explain the attitude that EL PAÍS took in the face of López Obrador's last campaign without the Iberdrola, Repsol, and BBVA contracts… without all these things.

JH

I perfectly remember the editorial of El País in 2012, after the 2012 elections, it was: "López Obrador is a drag on the left in Mexico."

EF

So, watch out, in that sense these media consortia are part of the great neoliberal power, the great power of the neoliberal model.

Also, they are anchored in a very organic way.

They do not even have to talk about it, they do not even have to discuss it, it is part of their interests and that is what is at stake in this whole process.

PM

Yes and no.

Look, there are big differences between those countries and between those countries and Mexico, because there are big differences between Lula, and Chávez-Maduro, or between Correa and Evo.

That is, they are things ... Or Christina Kirchner who also suffered harassment ...

EF

From the media.

AH

It is the same as what they do to Podemos in Spain.

PM

Sure, that is, there is a campaign by Vox and company against Sánchez for handling the epidemic, right?

Look, there are

hashtags

traced from Spain that are being applied here or vice versa, I don't know.

EF

And I want to add something.

Not only are they traced hashtags, but Julián Macías, who is the head of the Podemos networks, has documented that it is the same

botnets

that feed the campaigns in Venezuela, Mexico, Bolivia and Spain.

Behind all these campaigns is clearly the international extreme right, there is the National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, there is Atlas Networks, and all these groups have operation centers in all our countries.

So, we are not inventing.

There is a right-wing international in networks, operating and working to overthrow this.

Now what Peter says is correct.

Sign up… The question you ask is also a good one.

Obradorismo is clearly part of a long antineoliberal cycle that has its center of action, let's say, in Latin America that has an important moment in Mexico, but that is expressed differently in each of the countries but it is, at the end of accounts, a major anti-neoliberal cycle with ramifications in Europe.

He has them with Podemos in Spain, with the movement of insubordinate France north of the Pyrenees, and so on.

I mean, all that exists.

THE COUNTRY.

Do you really believe that AMLO could fall as in other Latin American countries?

EF

Man!

PM

Yes, of course I do.

EF

Of course!

PM

It is that they are two pendulums.

In Latin America we have the northern part, which is Mexico, which is always upside down with South America.

I put it in these terms.

In the 1970s, when military dictatorships proliferated there, here we had a State that was not democratic, because it was repressive, bloodthirsty and whatever you want, but it was sovereign, it was developmental.

EF

Nationalist.

PM He

was a nationalist.

He had a sense of the welfare state that welcomed tens of thousands of refugees from those dictatorships.

This was a situation that came from the forties, fifties, huh.

In Mexico there were more or less progressive governments and there were the military.

This is reversed when the neoliberal cycle begins or shortly after, and then progressive projects start to emerge in South America and Mexico falls into the worst neoliberal swamp in the world, and you have the investment of things, and then you have Mexico boycotting Latin America in international forums and Mexico voting with Washington against Latin America.

It was really an offense, you know?

It was a very great offense to see Mexico aligned when Mexico had been the only resistance and the one that had maintained relations with Cuba, and so on.

So the pendulum is double, you know?

Now look, I'm very relaxed because I have a certainty and a conviction.

Are they going to defeat us?

Man, of course they are going to defeat us.

The story is pendular.

What I would like is to be defeated in sixty years and not in six months, right?

This is the point, make the cycle last and last.

Yes, counterrevolution is going to come, they always come.

EF

Because the press is today the main battering ram of the right wing campaigns against all progressive governments in Latin America, that's how it was.

Who knocked down ...?

That is, why did Christina Kirchner lose the election?

For a campaign of discredit that they start based on lies and that the press amplifies.

Why is Dilma Rousseff leaving the presidency?

For a campaign led by these ultra-right groups and that has no support either.

Why does Lula end up in jail?

For a campaign led by the media.

Why can't Rafael Correa compete in Ecuador right now?

For a media campaign… Who is the spearhead against the Maduro government?

The media.

Who is the spearhead ...?

Who was the spearhead against the government of Evo Morales?

The media.

What is happening here ...?

Andrés Manuel I don't know ...

THE COUNTRY.

In Venezuela, those that remain.

EF

Those who remain, of course because it is also very funny because those same media that cry out so much for freedom of expression, when these governments come, they are already silent, they are already reassured.

When these governments do repress, these governments of the right I mean, right?

So what is Andrés Manuel López Obrador doing by spending time with the media in the morning?

Common sense is fighting.

It is debating, say, the narrative of the nation.

All these gentlemen that I told you, Christina Kirchner, Correa, sought strategies to counteract the weight of the media.

Christina Kirchner launched a media law.

JH:, we

coincide on several Monsivais birthdays.

THE COUNTRY.

How have your drawings changed since you went to eat at the President's house?

Are they less critical?

JH

People believe that we have to go with the flow, all journalists have to criticize the president and just because yes and no.

What we usually do is think a little more about it.

Let's see, if what the president says is attacked, the first thing we see are

memes

, for example, right?

They are often stupid ...

JH

... with a degree of humor, no reflection, that's why they are stupid, what we are obliged to do is think about it a little more, you know?

Let's see, why is this happening and why are they attacking each other?

Who is attacking them?

Why are they saying it?

So basically our work is based on the proper reading of the situation.

For this reason, sometimes we even rally it, we write to each other and we consult each other.

THE COUNTRY.

How are you seeing the Morena debate?

Is the possible successor to the president being played?

PM

I think so.

EF

In part.

JH

Or that's what they want.

AH

That is what they believe.

EF

That is what they believe and want.

PM:

The election is being ugly and indecent.

Look, I think there are three elements ...

AH:

Well, there you see that he is not a cartoonist because for a cartoonist ...

PM

The ugly is beautiful.

Well, you are from the school of ugliness.

Do you remember that skull of Diego Rivera that said: "This eminent painter, cultivator of ugliness, died instantly when he painted himself."

Look, ugly, indecent, and I think there are three things that should not have a place in Morena, but that are part of the political inertia.

Morena has been colonized, to some extent, by those political inertias that Morena seeks to establish.

They are the revolutionary moments of great contradiction: political marketing is one;

personalism is another;

and judicialism, that is, judicializing the political debate.

Making people the center of the debate instead of thinking about the programs, and the resort to advertising because if you think about it, advertising is putting money into politics, which is exactly what Morena's project intends eradicate, that is, that coexistence between money and politics, that's how I see it.

JH

I don't care about Morena

AH

It gives me roe

EF

The movement goes beyond that lawsuit, huh.

JH

Yes it is a lawsuit, but of domes.

The important thing that is happening is happening below

Source: elparis

All news articles on 2020-10-25

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