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CDU leader Kramp-Karrenbauer: appeal to the SPD, Greens, FDP and left
Photo: Dominik Butzmann / DER SPIEGEL
SPIEGEL:
Ms. Kramp-Karrenbauer, on February 10th you announced your withdrawal from party leadership.
Do you think that the CDU will have a chairman before it is the first anniversary of your announcement?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
The whole country is just four weeks into lockdown.
Only at the beginning of December will it be seen how high the number of infections will be and when the CDU will be able to hold a party conference again afterwards.
Then we also know whether there is a basis for an alternative, for example for a digital party congress at which we can also vote digitally in a legally secure manner.
SPIEGEL:
Is it possible for you to imagine that there will be elections this year?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
No.
We cannot prepare a party congress at random.
That would be irresponsible in this situation, and something like that also costs money.
The Presidium and the Federal Executive Board have decided in December how to proceed - this also includes the question of whether elections can be held in January 2021.
SPIEGEL:
You sound like Corona fell from the sky in October.
It was clear that with a party congress at the beginning of December it could be difficult or even impossible.
Didn't you simply fail to come up with a concrete plan?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
Of course, the party headquarters has given a lot of thought.
A great many concepts were developed in the Konrad-Adenauer-Haus.
Incidentally, when it came to the question of the party congress, we always decided together in the committees; on September 14th we agreed on a face-to-face congress.
I would also like to remind you that a few weeks ago in Germany we were discussing where we were going on our autumn vacation.
The situation was completely different.
We had a very convincing hygiene concept for the party conference in Stuttgart.
SPIEGEL:
But that's not enough.
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
General Secretary Paul Ziemiak also had concepts developed for a decentralized party conference.
Since the first lockdown, we have fought hard to make digital election party conferences legally possible.
Unfortunately, there is still no way to make this legally secure.
I hope that will change.
The option of postal voting remains.
But this is the worst of all variants because it is tedious and impractical.
What kind of picture would the CDU produce if it elects its board of directors by letter in all ballots for two and a half or three months?
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CDU boss: "Establishment is actually a term from the spontaneous scene."
Photo: Dominik Butzmann / DER SPIEGEL
SPIEGEL:
In order to be able to vote digitally with legal certainty, you would have to rely on the help of other parties.
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
The safest form would be an amendment to the Basic Law that would make digital elections possible in the future.
For this we need an even broader majority.
We will now resume talks with the other parties.
Everyone is affected.
That's why I appeal to everyone: let's get this done together.
It's not just about Corona, but also about how we as parties position ourselves in a digitized world.
SPIEGEL:
Would it even be technically possible?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
In internal party elections, the democratic electoral principles must be adhered to.
There are stricter standards than for clubs or companies.
It must be avoided under all circumstances that the new CDU chairman, who is then also to become chancellor candidate, first has to deal with legal disputes in the federal election campaign because the election is contested.
SPIEGEL:
We understand that correctly: the next CDU chief will also be a candidate for chancellor?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
Anyone who becomes CDU chairman naturally also has the right to be candidate for chancellor for the CDU.
Whether he will then also be the joint candidate for union must be clarified with the CSU.
SPIEGEL:
The CDU is currently suffering from the power struggle between three men, none of whom is considered an ideal candidate for chancellor.
Wouldn't it be best for the entire Union if you stayed in office for the time being and then offered Markus Söder the candidacy?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
We have been living with this open situation since February.
Up until this weekend it wasn't a problem.
By then, the three candidates have disciplined themselves and made their contribution to fair competition.
With the good will of everyone, this is possible again and again.
I now expect from everyone that in this difficult situation of the corona pandemic you do not have any discussions that would damage the CDU as a whole.
SPIEGEL:
You say yourself: until this weekend.
The matter escalated because Armin Laschet wanted to postpone the party congress and Friedrich Merz was against it.
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
This dispute goes far beyond what the occasion actually means.
Neither rushing ahead nor post cards were helpful for the CDU.
In our country, citizens are currently afraid for their health, of losing relatives or they are worried about their professional future.
The question of whether a party congress takes place a little earlier or later is comparatively small.
All candidates should turn this in their hearts.
SPIEGEL:
You have now elegantly avoided our question as to whether the party would not be best off if you stayed a little longer.
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
We have a clear situation.
SPIEGEL:
Are the three of them still wearable after this theater?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
The delegates will decide in the end.
The more ruinous the competition is, the more some people may ask about other applicants as a reflex to this discussion.
SPIEGEL:
Do you expect that?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
I'm currently assuming that the field of candidates will remain that way.
SPIEGEL:
With the discussions you are referring to Jens Spahn, who is repeatedly mentioned as a possible compromise candidate.
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
He knows these speculations.
But he has stated that he would like to be part of Armin Laschet's team.
I don't know any other statement from him.
SPIEGEL:
Everyone is now upset about Friedrich Merz and his rumble.
But he has one point: The CDU leadership is fleeing from a decision on the chairmanship.
Kramp-Karrenbauer: In
view of the increasing number of infections, we cannot hold this party conference at the moment.
We're going into lockdown now.
The idea that we can explain why family gatherings are dangerous but not a party convention with 1,000 delegates is not realistic.
By the way: Many in the federal executive board - including Merz supporters - found his statements offensive after the unanimous decision against a party congress on December 4th.
SPIEGEL:
Among other things, he spoke of the fact that parts of the "establishment" had conspired against him.
What did you think when you heard that?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
Establishment is actually a term from the spontaneous scene.
So far I haven't placed Friedrich Merz in the scene (laughs).
SPIEGEL:
How much does the leadership dispute harm the CDU?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
Take a look at the surveys.
Many people trust the federal government and the parties, especially the CDU, in this difficult Corona time.
They know that they could and can always rely on us in a crisis.
That is what we should focus on now in the difficult phase of a new lockdown.
SPIEGEL:
Is this argument a male phenomenon?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
I don't know, and it's irrelevant.
In any case, it is not good for anyone.
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Kramp-Karrenbauer with the SPIEGEL editors Christoph Hickmann and Veit Medick
Photo: Dominik Butzmann / DER SPIEGEL
SPIEGEL:
Merz says he has been preparing for his candidacy for two years, which means that he never stopped after losing to you at the 2018 party conference.
Did you actually notice anything about it?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
Friedrich Merz always did this with a very open mind.
Shortly after the party conference in Hamburg, he told me that he would keep an eye on the situation and, if in doubt, would run again if he saw the opportunity.
To that extent it was open competition.
SPIEGEL:
So he always sawed your chair, but you could at least watch him do it?
Kramp-Karrenbauer:
I'm not adopting the picture as my own.
But in fact the decision at the party congress in Hamburg did not conclusively clarify the question.
That must not be repeated now.
I expect that from all three candidates.
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