"I have brought something that I have never taught anyone. I am going to show it to you." That was what Trump told me on December 5, 2019. "You are going to see something great." He picked up the phone from the office desk Oval. "Bring me a picture with Kim Jong-un crossing the line. One of those pretty ones in color that I just saw."
The 74-minute interview that afternoon came three months before the coronavirus pandemic consumed the United States and the rest of the world.
It would be the first of my 17 encounters with him for this book.
"All of this will be recorded for the book," I said.
I am here to hear your arguments.
And I want to talk about politics.
Because after addressing nine presidents, politics is what matters.
It is the spine and the definition.
"I agree," Trump said.
But politics can change too, you know?
Some say that I change.
And I do.
I like flexibility, not someone who has a policy and is able to walk through a brick wall for it, when you can easily switch and not have to walk through it.
I mentioned that the CIA had come to the conclusion that Kim is "cunning and clever but, deep down, stupid."
"I hope you write it down," he said.
And I hope you write my answer.
I do not agree.
He's cunning.
He is skillful.
He is very clever.
And it is very hard.
"And why does the CIA say that?"
"Because they don't know," he answered.
Voucher?
They have no idea.
I am the only one who knows.
The only one he deals with.
Doesn't want to deal with anyone else
At the time, Trump had had three meetings with Kim.
I later found out that the CIA's top North Korea expert agreed with the president that Kim was clever and manipulative, and also quite smart.
An assistant brought the photos.
They had all been published and had been widely circulated.
"This is me and him."
That's the border, right?
Well right after, I crossed it.
Not bad, huh?
That is the line between North Korea and South Korea.
That line is big words.
No one has crossed that line.
Never.
Many other people had crossed the border into North Korea, but Trump was the first sitting US president to do so.
—I said: "Would you like it to happen?"
He said yes, I would like it to happen.
Nobody has ever done it.
I mean, these photos are cool when ... I mean, like iconic photos, what do you think?
"Still, it's a dangerous relationship," I said.
Do you agree?
"Yes, but less dangerous than before."
Because he likes me.
And he me too.
We get along well.
That doesn't mean I'm being naive.
It doesn't mean I think ah, this is going to be wonderful!
He's a tough guy.
And he's smart, very smart.
"Are you convinced he's smart?"
-More than ready.
Look, at the age of 27, he put himself in charge of an unstable place where people are very smart.
Same as in South Korea.
They are equal.
Voucher?
The same people.
Very smart.
Trump did not deny that Kim was also violent and ruthless.
As he said.
"Kim tells me everything."
I know everything about him.
He killed his uncle and put the body on the same staircase that senators used to use.
And his head was severed, laid on his chest.
Does it seem harsh?
Well, they think politics in this country is tough.
Nancy Pelosi said, "Come on, let's prosecute you."
Does it seem harsh?
This is hard.
They're great photos. ”He pointed to one of the images.
Look, have you seen him smile before?
The North Korean media regularly publish images of Kim smiling at various events.
"The NorthCom commander in Colorado Springs has the presidential authority to shoot down a missile that can hit the American mainland from North Korea," I said.
This would only happen if the Secretary of Defense was not available.
Is it okay to delegate that authority to NorthCom?
-Clear.
Let's see, you have to be prepared.
I don't wait for anything.
If I did, I wouldn't be here for a year.
They have been trying to remove me for three years.
No more.
Since the day I went down the escalator, you know?
He alluded to the launch of his electoral campaign.
They have been trying to get rid of me ever since.
He showed me a photograph.
"Look what a nice photo."
The relationship is good.
"Now a tough question, President Trump," I said.
I understand that we came close to going to war with North Korea.
"Yes, closer than anyone knows."
Much more.
I mean, he knows it better than anyone, ”she said, referring to Kim.
"Did you tell him?"
"I'm not going to tell you."
But he knows.
I have a great relationship with him, let's put it like this.
But we'll see what happens.
During a meeting on educational issues at the White House, December 2019.
He then commented that in two years North Korea had not conducted nuclear or ICBM tests.
The last test with ICMB had been in November 2017.
"I still can't tell you what the end will be, how it will end."
It has tested short-range missiles.
And by the way, all countries have short-range missiles.
Voucher?
It is not so bad.
That does not mean that from January I will not do things.
We'll see what.
But I have a great relationship with him.
Leading foreign affairs figures have said Trump made too many concessions to Kim by agreeing to a meeting without official written conditions.
"Do you think you've given Kim too much power?"
-asked.
The North Korean had said he would not launch any more ICBMs.
If you get defiant and shoot one of those ICBMs, what will you do sir?
"If you shoot, shoot," he replied.
And then you will have serious problems, let's put it like this.
Very serious problems.
More serious than anyone has ever had.
So, he drifted off topic to reveal something extraordinary: a secret new weapon system.
"I've built a nuclear system, a weapons system that no one has had before in this country."
We have things you've never seen, they don't even sound familiar to you.
Things that don't even sound like Putin or Xi.
Nobody… What we have is incredible.
Later, several sources confirmed to me that the US Army had a new weapons system, but no one wanted to offer details and they were surprised that Trump had revealed it.
He had applied for and secured huge increases in funding for the National Nuclear Security Administration, which maintains stocks of nuclear weapons.
Trump told me that the only thing he had granted Kim was a meeting.
"Look, what a good photo."
He's having a good time.
You see it?
No one has seen him smile.
You feel happy.
"Do you think it was like Nixon with China?"
I asked, referring to the opening to China in 1972.
"No, I don't even want to talk about Nixon and China."
I think China has been a horrible thing for this country.
Because we have let them become an economic powerhouse.
So I commented that the Army always claims that alliances with NATO and South Korea are America's best deal, a great investment in joint defense.
"The Army is wrong," he replied.
I wouldn't say they are stupid, because I would never say that about our military.
But if someone said that, whoever said it was acting stupid.
It's a horrible deal.
We are protecting South Korea from North Korea, and they are making a fortune with televisions and ships and everything else.
No?
It costs us $ 10 billion.
We are fools.
The United States has an annual expenditure of approximately 4.5 billion dollars (more than 3.8 billion euros) to post troops in South Korea, 920 of which are paid by the South Korean government.
"There's outrage out there," I said, referring to the country.
And you are here, sitting in the Oval Office.
Why?
Why so much outrage?
"Okay," he replied, "I think it's for several reasons."
But before I agree to answer that question, eh? I have to say this: there will also be many Democrats who will vote for me in secret.
Same as last time.
The Obama Democrats who came out ... I was going to say, Barack Hussein, but better not, because I want this to be super nice.
The Obama Democrats who came out and voted for me were a huge percentage.
And Bernie Sanders voted for me too.
Bob Woodward.
His chronicles in 'The Washington Post' with Carl Bernstein made Nixon fall for the Watergate case.
He has published books on the last nine presidents of the United States.
'Rage' is his second work on Trump.
According to exit polls, about 9% of voters who identified themselves as Democrats voted for Trump in 2016, and about 7% of those who identified themselves as Republicans voted for Clinton.
I mentioned former President Obama and said that many considered him a smart man.
-I dont know.
I don't think Obama is smart, ”he replied.
Look, I think it's very overrated.
I don't think I'm a great speaker.
It's very ... "Hey, look, I've been to the best universities, I've done super well."
I had an uncle who was a professor at MIT for 40 years, one of the most respected.
My father's brother.
And my father was smarter than him.
It is good ancestry.
And they talk about the elite.
Seriously, from the elite!
Oh, they have nice houses.
No. Mine are much better.
I have everything better than them, including education.
"We are at an important moment in history," I said, "in which a process is going to begin to remove him, the Chamber is going to remove him."
-Yes.
"And we're in the Oval Office right now."
And I see him satisfied, happy, proud.
-Yes.
The deputy press secretary interrupted saying:
"Gentlemen, we have five minutes left."
The Secretary of the Treasury waits.
"It's okay," Trump said.
Ahead.
I love this guy.
Even if he writes shit about me.
What is the Trump-Pence strategy to win over the undecided voter in the next 11 months?
"I don't know," he answered.
You know?
I'll tell you which one.
Do a good job.
That's it.
It is very simple.
It's not ... I don't have a strategy.
I just do it right.
"Why don't you show me your taxes?"
Seriously.
He repeated his usual argument that the IRS was reviewing his tax returns, but I knew that, if he wanted, that wouldn't stop him from showing them.
"Do you know what I won last year?"
Trump asked.
488 million, or something like that.
488 million.
And it's because I'm not there.
I mean, I would have earned a lot more.
Four eight eight.
According to the financial statement filed with the Office of Government Ethics in May 2019, in 2018 Trump reported revenue of at least $ 434 million.
I mentioned the split screen effect of the
impeachment
debate
in the House of Representatives and our interview in the Oval Office.
He knew this was a prepared number.
He had all his props on the desk: the scrolls with the judges' appointment orders in the center of the table, his photos with Kim, and a file cabinet with Kim's letters.
He had already interviewed Carter, Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama in the Oval Office.
They all sat in the presidential chair by the fireplace, and none had props.
"It's like I've won the biggest lottery prize in history," I said.
-Yes.
He earned it every day.
Nancy Pelosi has skyrocketed my poll numbers.
And he comes out saying: "I pray for our president."
He has not prayed for me in his life.
-Agree.
In one sentence, what is the job of the president?
What is your job?
"I have many jobs."
I offered him my standard definition.
—I think it is to find out what is the next stage of benefit for a majority of people in the country.
"It's good," Trump said.
—And then say: we're going there, and this is the plan to get there.
-Right.
But sometimes the path changes.
I mean, many people are inflexible.
Sometimes the path has to change, you know?
You have a wall in front of you and you have to go around it instead of crossing it: it is much easier.
But really, a president's job is to keep our country safe, keep it prosperous.
Voucher?
Prosperity is important.
Although, sometimes there is so much prosperity that people want to misuse it, and you have to be careful with it.
As I listened to him, I was struck by the vagueness and directionlessness of Trump's comments.
He had been president for almost three years, and he did not seem capable of articulating a strategy or plan for the country.
I was surprised that he faced 2020, the year in which he expected to be re-elected, without a clearer message.
"By the way, can I ask you a question?"
Said Trump questioningly.
He wanted to know who he thought would be the Democratic presidential nominee.
My record with those kinds of predictions was lamentable and I preferred to pass.
"Who do you think your adversary is going to be?"
-asked.
"I'll be honest, I think the candidates are terrible."
I'm ashamed of the Democratic candidates.
I may have to run against one of them and, who knows ... It's an election.
But for now, it looks great for me.
-
Rabia,
by Bob Woodward, goes on sale tomorrow November 2 in a digital version and on the 5th on paper, at Roca Editorial.