Merkel generation: why young voters will miss the chancellor

Thirty years ago she became Federal Minister for the first time, she led the CDU for almost twenty years and has been Chancellor for almost exactly 15 years.

Especially the youngest voters find it difficult to imagine a federal policy without Angela Merkel at the top.

In this podcast episode, vote-catching host Sandra Sperber speaks to listeners who can no longer remember the time before Angela Merkel because they are too young.

"It's going to be strange next year," say many of them.

It is strange that you cannot imagine a country without Merkel.

Hear in the podcast why the "Merkel generation" is surprisingly satisfied and the topics on which they long for change.

The whole podcast to read

The complete transcript Up arrow Down arrow

[00:00:04]

Welcome to

Voices Catch

, the politics podcast from SPIEGEL.

I am Sandra Sperber.

[00:00:12] Voice

Angela Merkel has been head of government since I was nine years old, so it will be strange next year.

[00:00:18] Voice

I grew up with her.

Can I imagine someone other than Ms. Merkel?

Unfortunately not yet.

[00:00:25]

They were two young voice-catching listeners who represent the "Merkel generation" - that is, young Germans who grew up with the Chancellor and who can't remember any other head of government.

[00:00:39]

You know me and you know what I want to do and how I do it.

[00:00:44]

This almost iconic sentence by Angela Merkel is especially true for the young voters between 17 and 25 [years of age] with whom I speak in this podcast episode.

[00:00:54]

It's also a strange feeling to have to

admit

to yourself that you can't imagine a country without a certain politician - without Merkel.

[00:01:04]

This »Merkel generation« is what today's vote-catching episode is about.

How did Angela Merkel shape you?

And what does that mean for your decision in the next general election?

I want to reveal this much in advance: Many are rather skeptical about Merkel's imminent departure in the coming year.

[00:01:31]

 »Angie, Angie, Angie«

[00:01:32]

On election night in 2005 when these "Angie" chants were recorded, even the cheering CDU members could hardly imagine that this was the beginning of an era.

[00:01:42]

CDU and CSU are the strongest force.

The Union thus has a clear mandate.

[00:01:49]

Angela Merkel has been in power as Federal Chancellor for almost exactly 15 years.

She also led the CDU for almost 20 years.

With her current role as Corona Chancellor, Merkel's farewell may be a bit of a backseat.

But she made it clear: Next year is over, these are her last months in the Chancellery.

And that's why we asked our younger listeners in particular some time ago how they view the time after Angela Merkel and what they will take away from their chancellorship.

Many have described the Chancellor as an experienced crisis manager.

[00:02:22] Voice-catching

It ruled in a stable

manner

, it has always been an incredible

factor of

stability for our country.

[00:02:26] Vote

Especially if you look at the national elections in Europe or worldwide in recent years and a strong trend to the right, we have to deal with the climate crisis, the many EU skeptics and everything What else is going on, really watch out and really mustn't screw up the change of government now.

[00:02:42] Voice-catching

I trust her that she can solve international crises, that she can deal with authoritarian politicians such as Trump or Putin, that they can deal with them and that they are respected.

Unfortunately, I don't see that with any possible candidate for chancellor at the moment.

But I hope that they will grow into it as soon as possible.

[00:03:00]

Despite the appreciation for Merkel's unexcited political style, which apparently many of our listeners share, there was also a desire for change:

[00:03:09] Voice-catching

Hello, my name is Etienne Grimm, I'm 20 years old and I'm actually very excited to see a different face at the head of the federal government than that of the Chancellor.

She has a strong personality and has always represented Germany well - even if, in my opinion, she contributed a little less to the public discourse.

Yes, every now and then it went a little too fast.

So I would be interested in what it looks like if someone actually takes part in the public discourse more.

But overall I was very satisfied with Merkel as Chancellor.

[00:03:42]

So Etienne is hoping for a future chancellor who will explain better.

Voice catcher Josephine also told us that she would like new impulses - especially with regard to the topic of climate.

[00:03:54] Voice-

I have the utmost respect for the Chancellor and I am also grateful to her.

And nonetheless, I have to say that I am confident that there will be a new wind, for example in questions of the decarbonization of our industrialized nation.

[00:04:09]

And yet Josephine can hardly imagine how German politics would even implement such a big topic as climate policy without Merkel at the helm.

In her voice message, for example, she talks about how she recently pondered the introduction of a speed limit.

[00:04:25] Voice-catching

And then I thought to myself: This is such a particularly polarized topic in the climate protection debate between the conservative and the progressive camp that there is certainly a Dr.

Angela Merkel will find it difficult to enforce this.

And then it struck me: Well, until that happens, Angela Merkel is no longer Chancellor.

And at that moment it actually became clear to me to what extent Angela Merkel is actually somehow firmly anchored in my political thinking.

Well, I can’t imagine them without them anymore.

[00:05:00]

How does this Merkel generation tick?

I wanted to find out and called Josephine.

She is 17 years old, is in eleventh grade and will be able to vote for the first time in the next federal election.

And Josephine is a bit amazed herself that it is so difficult for her to even imagine another person at the head of the federal government.

[00:05:21] Voice

I think it's very difficult to understand if you are not part or not directly part of my generation.

I first really understood that Angela Merkel's political career was finally finite, I think it wasn't until December 2019, when she was adopted as CDU party leader to thunderous applause.

[00:05:44]

It was a great pleasure for me.

It was an honor for me.

Thank you very much!

[00:05:53]

How did you observe that?

What was going through your head?

[00:05:56] Voice-

Yeah, so when I saw that, I think I had a bit of a feeling of sadness.

I can't describe it exactly, but Angela Merkel was just always there.

I associate all of my political memories with Angela Merkel.

[00:06:09]

Do you remember when they first noticed you or how they perceived you as a child?

[00:06:16] Voice

Well, I'm not sure.

So for the first time in 2008 with the financial crisis, I think.

Somehow those were the times when the federal government often appeared in front of the cameras and gave many press conferences.

And then I definitely have a little more solid memory of the 2013 federal election. I saw this election duel back then.

[00:06:38]

I want to be good years for the next few years.

We can only achieve this together, to be successful.

[00:06:46]

You were 10 years old.

[00:06:47] Voice

Yes, exactly.

[00:06:48]

Have

there been any other milestones in

your

policy since then that you consciously remember, where they made an impression on you or where you had such classic Merkel moments?

[00:06:59] Voice-catching

Yes, I think that is the refugee crisis, like with everyone.

[00:07:03]

So in summer 2015.

[00:07:03] Voice

Yes, exactly.

[00:07:04]

Germany is a strong country.

[00:07:06] Voice

I know it's an incredibly difficult topic, but I think she couldn't have acted otherwise.

And that's why I felt your actions in the refugee crisis were just right.

[00:07:20]

We have achieved so much - we can do it.

[00:07:24] Voice

She always seemed to me, as far as I can still remember, incredibly level-headed and very calm.

And I can only confirm that today.

She is often ridiculed for not being so pathetic now.

But she still has this clearly rational, analytical demeanor.

[00:07:39]

Do you

think

that's good?

[00:07:40] Voice-

I do believe that I think that's a good thing, yes, because of course it forms a very clear opposite pole to these loud, polemical, even other heads of state.

[00:07:54]

Would you have chosen the Chancellor or the CDU in the last federal election if you could have voted?

[00:08:00] Voice

Oh, that's a good question.

I dont know.

On the one hand, I fully respect Angela Merkel.

But I also have to say that in terms of climate policy I already have a different line than the CDU.

Well, I would have chosen her as a person, but I'm not so sure about her party.

[00:08:20]

Why?

[00:08:20] Voice

It's just the old conflict, for me the CDU just doesn't pick up the young people enough.

And I did say that I see Angela Merkel as a strong woman.

But I still think that the CDU also offers a little too little for young women.

But in the end, I think, it would be somehow the decisive reason for me not to vote for the CDU in terms of climate policy.

[00:08:42]

Climate is an important issue for you.

Now Angela Merkel was also considered the climate chancellor for a while.

There were pictures of her in a snowsuit on a ship in front of icebergs.

How do you assess your role there?

[00:08:57] Voice

I can understand that the topic is of course difficult and that it can somehow divide.

Politics is always about finding compromises and consensus.

That's why I can understand that somehow the climate package wasn't the biggest hit in terms of decarbonization.

But still I would have hoped for more than young people who will live here on the planet for a few more years.

[00:09:18]

You will be able to vote for the very first time in the federal election next year.

Do you already have an idea who you want to vote for?

[00:09:25] Voice

Unfortunately not at all.

I've really thought about it.

But I just really don't know.

So for me, my political positions are so divided between different parties.

And now I can't say that I somehow value one of the potential candidates more than the others.

Therefore: It will be a surprise what I choose.

[00:09:48]

So Josephine is undecided and is still waiting to see which candidates for chancellor will be in the running.

Neele Schauer will have a say in this question.

She is 21 years old and a member of the CDU.

For her home state Hesse she will be a delegate at the federal party conference of the CDU.

This means that she can have a say in the next chairman and possible candidate for chancellor.

And that's why I'm interested in what she imagines as a young party member for the future of the CDU after Angela Merkel.

[00:10:17]

I joined Angela Merkel's CDU and that is important to me.

I'm curious to see how it will develop.

[00:10:25]

So Angela Merkel's CDU, you mean the more urban, more liberal CDU.

[00:10:32]

Yes, yes, I mean by that.

I am a young woman.

I am from a metropolitan area.

These are things that are important to me.

I am not over conservative.

But I'm not super progressive either.

And someone has to occupy the middle.

[00:10:47]

Neele Schauer was already enthusiastic about this center party as a teenager.

She was active in the student council and wanted to get more involved in society.

And so she ended up at the Junge Union in 2013.

Two years later she joined the CDU at the age of 16.

[00:11:04]

It was also a time when there weren't as many political controversies as there might be today.

In retrospect, it always seems to have been very calm waters.

[00:11:15]

What role did Angela Merkel play in

your

decision to go into politics?

[00:11:21]

Well, she definitely contributed to

my decision to join

the CDU.

I would say that.

In retrospect, I already believe that I thought it was good, that it was a woman, there is such an identification factor there, instead of when you have a lot of men there.

It only occurred to me much later that it might be something special.

[00:11:42]

Even though Angela Merkel has been ruled by a chancellor for 15 years, women are still in the minority in politics - especially when it comes to mandates and top positions.

In the CDU, for example, the proportion of women is almost 30 percent.

[00:11:57] How do you react when one or the other says: But now it's time for a man again?

Now we really had Merkel for a long time and then AKK for a short time, really enough women at the top.

[00:12:09]

I don't know if you can imagine how often I've heard this sentence!

[00:12:14]

Really?

[00:12:18]

Yes, that is actually a classic.

Well, I can't say anything, because if we just look at the last 70 years of Germany, then no, it's not time for a man!

Well, I think it's super presumptuous to say it's time for a man again.

Well, we can also look at how many women state chairmen there are in the CDU or things like that, how many women prime ministers.

A chancellor is important.

A chancellor is great, but that doesn't change the fact that the overall structure is not like that.

[00:12:52]

Would you say you are a feminist?

[00:12:54]

Yes!

[00:12:55]

The Chancellor has a bit of a

problem

with the term.

[00:12:58]

I can understand too.

I was certainly not the first to shout "here" either.

But over time and with my experiences and I also believe that feminism is not a fixed term.

So we in the CDU always discuss what is conservative for us?

And I also think you can discuss what is feminist for me.

But I'm certainly more feminist than many in the CDU.

But that's important to me, I am in favor of equal rights for men and women.

I am for the representation of women.

I grew up very free in that regard.

I didn't feel any hurdles until somehow my math teacher said: "Girls can't do math", and so are the classics, I think, but which many young women have still experienced today - which is really really not necessary.

[00:13:54]

And now being a woman is one thing, I think being a young woman is often even more difficult.

You experience other things again.

In the CDU there is a male share of 73 percent among the members.

What did you experience there personally?

[00:14:07]

I received a lot of support, especially at the beginning.

For some, the climate has certainly developed the more I have said my opinion on topics that were not school policy - everyone had to get used to them first.

And it was certainly the decision to go to the women's union, I'm running for the national executive committee of the women's union, which not only caused storms of enthusiasm.

Many people somehow have a great inhibition threshold when it comes to the topic, especially maybe at the CDU.

[00:14:40]

To be so consciously committed to women's issues or to identify and label yourself as a feminist?

[00:14:46]

Yes, that is, that is difficult ... I think in other parties that is part of the standard.

It's difficult with us.

[00:14:54]

It is often said in the party: "Man, we've had a Chancellor here for 15, 16 years now, she has been chairwoman of the CDU for even longer - we can't be blamed that we are behind «.

Why are there not more women in the CDU?

[00:15:08]

The suction is definitely there - I wouldn't deny that.

I think, even if you look at the numbers of how women have been voting for the CDU since Angela Merkel is or was the top candidate - you can see that.

But the inhibition threshold to join the party and say, I am committed, I invest time in it - family, job and politics - is, I think, much higher for women - especially when you hold offices here on site look, somehow in the city council.

It's time-consuming and it takes place in the evening and stuff like that.

[00:15:48]

And so even the CDU is now discussing a quota for women.

The outgoing party chairman Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer had suggested this and sparked heated discussions.

Above all, her possible successor Friedrich Merz is skeptical.

Presenting himself as a man ready to change direction.

[00:16:05]

How do you see the current field of applicants?

At the moment there are Friedrich Merz, Armin Laschet and Norbert Röttgen in the running - so only men.

How do you rate that?

[00:16:14]

I have to say, I'm super indecisive myself. I don't have the candidate where I can say: Okay, this is my candidate, I think he's good, I want to campaign for it or that's it.

Now I have to think about it: Okay, who do I find very stupid and who do I find quite okay.

And who should it be?

I am having a hard time.

I don't really know all of them.

I don't know ... Armin Laschet, all I can think of is my first federal party conference.

That was in Essen, shortly before the state elections in North Rhine-Westphalia.

That's how his election commercial ran, like that.

That's why I would know when I first noticed Armin Laschet: in his election commercial.

Before that, I somehow had little to do with NRW.

And Norbert Röttgen is somehow ... He was once on the scene, then disappeared and is now back.

I don't know who to choose.

But I might know who's out.

[00:17:11]

Namely?

Can you reveal it?

[00:17:15]

I'm

having a really

hard time with Friedrich Merz - I already had it in the last election and I can't say that that has changed.

That probably comes out again: I'm not the generation that Friedrich Merz somehow experienced in his heyday.

I don't want to say that I would never choose him, but I have a hard time accepting that.

[00:17:33]

Why?

[00:17:34]

Everyone says he's such a phenomenal speaker.

I've only seen him at the last party congresses and it just didn't blow me away.

[00:17:42]

A change of direction for the CDU often resonates a bit, right?

[00:17:47]

Yes, exactly.

Well, maybe I know most about him because I dealt with him in an election campaign.

And those are not the topics that I find convincing.

So, the big, big hope I would have would be that after the decision, at least after the decision, we would do the same thing that we actually set out to say two years ago: We stand behind the candidate.

There will always be some current that feels disadvantaged.

And I was hoping we would get that sorted.

I don't have the hope that there will be a big change of direction.

I think that's a shame.

[00:18:23]

If she wanted to come back now, from your point of view, could Angela Merkel run again?

[00:18:28]

From my personal?

[00:18:28]

Yes.

[00:18:30]

Yes, so personally I wouldn't have a problem with that now.

Well, I don't think so for you personally either.

She's really hard to earn her pension, but I'd think it's good.

But I don't believe

[00:18:48]

It should take another year or so before the Merkel generation has to get used to a newly elected Chancellor - depending on how quickly a coalition comes together after the election in September then Merkel's successor settles.

[00:19:05] And with that, this podcast says goodbye to a longer winter break.

The vote catch then reports back in the new year.

Yasemin and I use the time to work on new podcast formats for SPIEGEL and as soon as we hear about them, we will of course let you know when we are catching votes.

Many thanks to all listeners who contributed to this episode and who used our email address stimmenfang@spiegel.de or sent us a WhatsApp voice message to the numbers 040 380 80 400 - you can of course continue to do so if You have feedback.

I'm Sandra Sperber and this week I was supported in the production by Philipp Fackler, Charlotte Meyer-Hamme, Johannes Kückens, Matthias Streitz, Philipp Wittrock and Yasemin Yüksel.

Our voice-catching music comes from Davide Russo.

Curious?

Then just click on the play arrow at the top of the article and hear the new episode of Voice Catch.

Icon: The mirror