Which is more important: the freedom of the individual or possibly even God's will?
This question split the panel at "Hart aber fair"
“God's will or human freedom: what counts when it
comes to
the desire to die?”
Triggers an intense debate with “hard but fair”.
Medical
ethicist Bettina Schöne-Seifert
: "From an ethical point of view, there is no difference between turning off life-sustaining machines or assisting with suicide."
For geriatric nurse Olaf Sander
it was an "act of love" to help his seriously ill mother die.
Cologne - And again, the doctors are in the focus of the "hart aber fair" panel discussion: This time, however, it is not about Corona, but about the controversial topic of euthanasia.
After the broadcast of the ARD chamber play “Gott”, the discussion is preceded by a vote by the audience - with a surprisingly clear result.
Hard but fair - the guests:
Georg Bätzing
- Bishop of Limburg, chairman of the German Bishops' Conference
Dr.
Susanne Johna
- senior physician in the Sankt Josefs-Hospital in Rüdesheim, chairwoman of the Marburger Bund, board member of the German Medical Association
Bettina Schöne-Seifert
- doctor and professor for medical ethics at the University of Münster
Olaf Sander
- The 48-year-old geriatric nurse from Erfurt accompanied his mother during the suicide.
"Hard but fair": Moderator Plasberg surprised by audience voting
More than 70 percent
of TV viewers
support the desire of
a physically healthy person to have an
assisted suicide
.
The 78-year-old's argument: “After the death of my wife, my life is no longer worth living.
I want to be able to die independently and with dignity. ”70.8 percent of those who have seen the chamber play“ Gott ”based on the novel by Ferdinand von Schirach and then voted, agree with him.
You're making a doctor get him the lethal dose of poison he wants to self-administer.
This clear majority even amazes the
moderator Frank Plasberg
.
The result of the audience voting for the film "Gott" by Ferdinand von Schirach: 70.8% voted for Mr. Gärtner to get the deadly drug, 29.2% against.
The # Hartaberfair discussion on this now in the first: https://t.co/5O67lSDSKW https://t.co/Uq1W4heHVG
- Das Erste (@DasErste) November 23, 2020
“Hard but fair”: Bishop Bätzing senses that there is an influence on the subject of euthanasia
Bishop Bätzing
immediately
qualifies
: “The film shows a fictitious situation and was also a bit suggestive.” So were the audience
influenced
in their
decision
?
The doctor and professor for medical ethics, Bettina Schöne-Seifert, holds against it: "If the majority of a person who is physically healthy already allows him to want to die independently, how much more then for a person who is terminally ill ... "Schöne-Seifert believes:" Self-determination, also about one's own notion of dignity, must have the last word. "With that she is on the line of the Federal Constitutional Court, which ruled in February 2020:" Everyone has the right to self-determined death. "
Bishop Bätzing is shocked: "The fact that the Federal Constitutional Court is adopting the ideology of euthanasia organizations or humanists is unheard of," he judges, visibly emotional.
Moderator Frank Plasberg
interjects: “Why is your moral view above another moral view?
One could simply say: you have lost. "Bätzing does not want to accept that:" The court must weigh up between two values and must not just use a single interpretation ... "
Euthanasia talk on “hard but fair”: The doctor does not want to help with suicide
Schöne-Seifert emphasizes the
consequences of the judgment
: "Now we no longer have to let the church or the medical officials dance around us." A swipe at the two guests to her right: Bishop Bätzing and Dr.
Susanne Johna, board member of the German Medical Association.
The senior doctor feels
bound
by her
Hippocratic oath
: “To answer every wish for a deadly drug with yes?
As a doctor, I don't want that. ”Johna refers to the strengths of palliative medicine and relies on personal conversations with suicidal people, who often find their courage to face life again.
And it warns of a dam break if the legislature does not set narrow limits.
Thoughts of suicide are not always permanent, says @SusanneJohna, board member @BAEKaktuell at #hartaberfair @DasErste.
"Answering 'yes' to every wish for a lethal drug? As a doctor, I don't want that."
The topic: "What matters when you want to die?"
pic.twitter.com/VWrFek6XA6
- tough but fair (@hartaberfair) November 23, 2020
Johna warns: “With the judgment, Germany goes much further than other countries with a liberal euthanasia law.” And names Switzerland, the Netherlands and Belgium, where assisted suicide has been allowed for a long time - albeit with restrictions.
Schöne-Seifert agrees: Politicians in Germany too must ensure that the judgment is poured into a law that allows assisted suicide, but also sets limits.
In Switzerland, 68 percent of TV viewers vote for assisted euthanasia
At the same time as ARD, “Gott” was also shown on
Swiss TV
:
68 percent
voted
“Yes” there
.
Frank Plasberg takes this as an opportunity to look to the Netherlands, Belgium and Switzerland as well: Have the suicide rates soared there?
Yes.
Since 2003, three times as much in the Netherlands, five times as much in Switzerland and even eleven times as much in Belgium ... "Converted to Germany, that would be 90 more suicides a day," explains Dr.
Johna.
The number of affect suicides has not decreased there either.
"Hard but fair": The most emotional moment on the talk show
Geriatric nurse Olaf Sander helped his mother commit suicide four years ago.
A WDR team filmed the last days of the mother's life, including the
emotional moments of saying goodbye
.
After the scenes, moderator Plasberg also looks touched.
And confronts the head of the medical association, Johna: “Olaf Sander had no one to help him.
Why do you leave people like him alone? ”-“ We don't, ”she replies twice.
"Yes," replied Plasberg both times.
Johna asks back: "Why should we doctors only be responsible for someone's suicide?" That is exactly what politics will now have to clarify.
"Every life fights for #life as long as it can and there is strength," says Olaf Sander at #hartaberfair @DasErste.
He accompanied his mother with the #suicide.
Everyone should decide for themselves when the end has come: "This is not a dam break for me."
#God #Sterhilfe pic.twitter.com/48FTo9ePtt
- tough but fair (@hartaberfair) November 23, 2020
Conclusion of the "hard but fair" show on euthanasia
A serious topic, in which the film "God" anticipated all the pros and cons.
With the difference that in "hart aber fair" there are real experts and not actors discussing - with very different worldviews.
But: Even after the ARD talk show, the vote would have been similar to that after the TV film.
The "hard but fair" issues of the weeks before were also heated.
A climate activist talked about the energy transition in a rage.
And there was also a lot of need for discussion on the subject of the corona vaccine, according to the assessments of SPD politician Karl Lauterbach.
Editor's note:
In general, we do not report suspected suicidal intent, so that such cases do not encourage possible imitators.
Reporting will only take place if the circumstances receive special public attention or, as in this case, there is a public debate on the subject.
If you or someone you know suffers from an existential life crisis or depression, please contact the telephone counseling on 0800-1110111.
Help is also available from the Psychiatry Crisis Service for Munich and Upper Bavaria on 0180-6553000.
You can find more information on the website www.krisendienst-psychiatrie.de.