Matteo Renzi: "If Conte wants full powers like Salvini, we will bring down the Government"

Matteo Renzi, this Wednesday in Rome, in a television program.ANGELO CARCONI / EFE

Matteo Renzi (Florence, 45 years old), former prime minister and leader of Italia Viva, led a historic political assault a year and a half ago in the middle of the summer that dismounted Matteo Salvini from the Executive and led to a new government in Italy.

The Florentine, the best in this type of palace movement, accepted that Giuseppe Conte would once again lead the new artifact.

Today, however, he threatens to use his parliamentary force (30 deputies and 18 senators) and send him home if the prime minister does not give in and radically changes the structure he has designed to distribute the 209,000 million euros of European funds that Italy will receive.

The situation is critical and comes at the worst time.

But Renzi is willing this time to go all the way.

If he overthrows the Government, he opines in a telephone interview with EL PAÍS just the morning after his harsh attack on Conte in the Senate, there would be no difficulty in forming another Executive.

Question.

You warned the prime minister in the Senate on Wednesday that you will topple the government if it does not reverse its decision to entrust the management of European recovery funds to a

task force

led by six CEOs.

Do you think he will listen to you?

Answer.

I think it will back down.

He was appointed president of the Council of Ministers after a year and a half ago we carried out an operation in Parliament against Salvini.

And it was a beautiful operation because, among other things, the 5-Star Movement (M5S), which was against Europe, today is pro-European and tries to join Emmanuel Macron's group (Renew Europe).

That is a tactical masterpiece.

The prime minister has worked to advance the pandemic.

And in some things he has done better than in others.

But it cannot be accepted that in the name of the emergency, 10 months after its onset, all the powers of the State are arrogated to spend those 200,000 million.

We did not remove Salvini for this.

P.

Italia Viva, your party, now has the key to this Executive.

Will it bring down the government if Conte doesn't back down?

A.

Yes, because this is not a job problem, as I was offered.

I can not accept it.

The mechanism for discussing institutional rules cannot be compensated for by a small agreement.

Italia Viva is a small party, but we are decisive for the Government.

If Conte wants full powers as Salvini requested, I say no.

It is a problem of respect for the rules.

And in that case we will withdraw support for the Government.

"If necessary, the numbers are given in Parliament to form another Government"

Q.

This time there is a part of the Democratic Party (PD) and the opposition that are with you.

Do you think you have your support in this?

R.

Many of those who distance themselves from me in public privately acknowledge that our criticisms are fair and authentic.

So I hope Conte stops.

It is he who is now going in the opposite direction on the highway.

If you regain lucidity, stop this absurd measure, we are ready to reason on the matter.

Q.

In what sense?

R.

We have 200,000 million euros, but we do not know who has decided how to spend it.

Only one document has appeared that says things like: "For tourism, 3,200 million euros."

Tourism is crucial for Italy.

Our Spanish friends will be happy if we only invest that amount.

But it is absurd that a country like ours, with the cultural heritage and the ability to attract visitors, invests 1.5% of these funds in this sector.

But who has decided this madness?

And that's just part of it.

Q.

Has there been no discussion in the Council of Ministers?

A.

No!

And this speaks of the prevailing improvisation.

They have not spoken with the mayors, with the unions, with the employers, with the third sector… It is as if they had lost their minds.

A technician at the Chigi Palace [government headquarters] has decided at night how to spend 200,000 million, which is our last great opportunity to think about the future of our children.

R.

What is your analysis?

R.

I do not know, I am a former prime minister who served his country for a while and today is a member of parliament.

I don't feel like arguing, but I can't accept that anyone in my country tries to claim full powers.

When Salvini tried, I got up in Parliament and said "no."

Now, I won't do something different.

Q.

Do they seem comparable to you?

R.

Salvini did it in a swimsuit and with a mojito in his hand and Conte, with a jacket and tie in an office.

I will not accept positions in exchange for our support, I will not be a minister "

Q.

Do you set a deadline to resolve this crisis?

A.

It depends on him.

You have to stop, apologize, and start over.

Q.

If the government falls, the Quirinal Palace [headquarters of the Presidency of the Republic] has already let it be known that it is inclined to call elections.

It will not allow other operations.

R.

Look, the Quirinal in Italy does not speak.

Those are sources attributed to those who want me to say a certain thing.

But in Italy, the system implies that the President of the Republic must verify if the numbers exist in Parliament to form another Government.

And if you find them, it's done.

Otherwise, it goes to elections.

Q.

And do you think those numbers are given?

A.

I think so.

But before we get to that, I would like the President of the Council to regain his peace of mind and come to Parliament to change everything.

P.

Italy is going through a critical situation: health, economic and social.

Does it seem prudent to lead such an operation?

R.

Ideally, it would go ahead with this majority and this Government.

But not at any price.

You have to be very clear with the 200,000 million of the recovery fund.

Q.

If the numbers did not add up, would you see with good eyes that a new majority also included Forza Italia?

R.

Forza Italia is a pro-European party that belongs to the European People's Party (EPP) and that must clarify its relationship with Salvini and [Giorgia] Meloni [of Brothers of Italy].

The Italian right is divided between sovereignists and popular.

But the sovereignists, unlike Spain, are more numerous.

I don't think Berlusconi and Salvini will ever break up.

Does it force Italy into government?

Berlusconi will not break with Salvini "

Q.

What kind of prime minister would you want if the government falls?

A.

Today's name is Giuseppe Conte and I suggest that he concentrate well because he will have to preside over the G20 at a very important moment.

The post-virus world and the return of the United States to the table of multilateralism.

Let him do that instead of asking for full powers.

Q.

Yes, but if you overthrow the government, as you threaten now, a prime minister will have to be elected.

Would you welcome someone from the PD like Nicola Zingaretti?

R.

I do not do pools.

This is not a personal matter, I insist.

Q.

Have you talked to Conte in the last few hours?

A.

I went to see him at Chigi Palace and asked him to do some serious work together.

When he later presented the project, I replied that his vision is against the philosophy that it should be fair to Italy.

We could not see each other more physically.

Q.

Have you offered anything to stop the threat?

A.

The

Sherpas

have met to work.

But I cannot and do not want to use a beginning battle to ask for positions.

It is evident that I would have every interest in doing it, but it is not a battle for my party, but for my country.

Q.

Would you accept a portfolio if there is a government remodeling in January?

R.

I will not return to the Council of Ministers.

It's a battle for ideas, and that makes me strong.