They are one-on-one at the Hôtel de Matignon.
Night has fallen outside, inside two men are talking over dinner.
The dialogue is informal, the discussion can become warm.
Since his arrival at the head of government a little over six months ago, Jean Castex has invited several of his predecessors, as is the tradition more or less honored by the tenants of Matignon.
Edouard Philippe of course, François Fillon, but also two of the three former Prime Ministers of François Hollande: Manuel Valls and Bernard Cazeneuve were thus invited in turn, before the implementation of the curfew.
Obviously on the menu of discussions, the health crisis and the "difficulty of governing".
The tradition also wants that the former respect a duty of reserve vis-à-vis the Prime Minister in office.
For once, no one is forcing himself.
Not that they find everything good, far from it.
"No benevolence, but responsibility", translates Bernard Cazeneuve.
Because they know that what the government is currently facing is on an unprecedented scale.
The epidemic is global, all countries are facing harsh restrictive measures and the global economic crisis is still in its infancy.
"The room for maneuver is reduced, it makes you powerless and it must be very distressing", privately agrees Manuel Valls who, however, experienced the period of the attacks.
"The hell of Matignon", an overused expression, has never so well deserved its name.
When dinner is finished, the guests leave, leaving Jean Castex to return to his task with no doubt this expression in mind: "If you are going through hell, above all keep moving forward."
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