François Hollande has decided to get out of the woods for, he confides to the Parisian, "not to leave these accusations against justice unanswered".
It is an understatement to say that the former socialist president did not taste the sharp criticisms against the judicial institution and the magistrates which followed the conviction of Nicolas Sarkozy, his predecessor at the Elysee Palace.
Attacks targeting in particular the National Financial Prosecutor's Office (PNF), created under the Holland five-year term after the Cahuzac affair.
Monday, Nicolas Sarkozy was sentenced to three years in prison, one of which was closed for corruption and influence peddling in the so-called "wiretapping" affair.
If he announced his intention to appeal the decision of the 32nd correctional chamber of Paris, he has also organized a strong counter-attack in recent days, via two interviews given to Figaro and 20 Hours of TF1.
The former head of state denounces a "deep injustice" and considers being the subject of "judicial harassment" for ten years.
How do you react to the conviction of Nicolas Sarkozy?
FRANCOIS HOLLANDE.
I understand what this condemnation represents for Nicolas Sarkozy both on the human level and on the political level.
It is also a matter of honor given the functions he performed, which is why he appealed.
I also understand the solidarity expressed by those close to him.
He was their leader for a long time.
Friendship is not a crime.
On the other hand, what I do not accept are the repeated attacks on justice and its independence, with magistrates who are specifically singled out.
I consider it particularly serious that critics who discredit the judiciary can go unanswered.
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Right-wing officials are targeting the National Financial Prosecutor's Office (PNF), which you created.
According to them, and Nicolas Sarkozy said it during his trial, it would have been created to harm the right?
I recall that the judgment was rendered by an independent tribunal after an investigation carried out by the PNF and then an investigation entrusted to other magistrates.
It was not the PNF who condemned Messrs Sarkozy, Herzog and Azibert: he simply made requisitions during the trial.
Finally, the PNF magistrates were not chosen by me, nor by my successor.
They were made on the proposal of the Keeper of the Seals after obtaining the assent of the Superior Council of the Judiciary.
So you fully defend the legitimacy of the PNF?
With this instrument, France has strengthened the effectiveness of criminal proceedings, to uncover fraudulent practices or acts of corruption.
To claim that the PNF acts for partisan purposes is to undermine the impartiality of 18 magistrates who work independently for the general interest.
On the prosecution of political figures, there are unfortunately for everyone, from the extreme right to the extreme left!
But matters of this nature are only a very small part of the PNF's business.
Of the 600 procedures it has opened, most concern large companies: Airbus, UBS, HSBC, or scandals such as the Panama Papers ... The PNF was thus able to recover 10 billion euros for the benefit of the Treasury.
To those who like Ms. Le Pen or Mr. Mélenchon complain that there would be a government of judges, I say that the time when policies were untouchable is over.
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Precisely, Nicolas Sarkozy suggests that the rules of the rule of law have been flouted ...
If they had been flouted, the Court of Appeal and the Court of Cassation would have recalled them.
However, these high courts were seized during the so-called wiretapping and fadettes procedure by multiple appeals and appeals.
Who should decide whether the rule of law is respected: our own consideration, our personal situations, our political sensitivities or justice?
It is justice.
What do you answer him when he suggests that justice has been biased and targets in particular Catherine Champrenault, attorney general of the Court of Appeal of Paris and former of the cabinet of Ségolène Royal?
Why should a magistrate be challenged on the pretext that he was a member of a ministerial cabinet?
François Molins, for whom I have a great deal of respect, who was the Paris prosecutor at the time of the Cahuzac affair, was at one point in his career the chief of staff of Michèle Alliot-Marie.
No one has suggested that he could act with a bias.
In addition, Mr. Sarkozy maintained that I would never accept that in a trial, I could be confronted with a magistrate who would have served within his cabinet.
But until further notice, I am not in a lawsuit.
And if that were to happen, I would deeply respect the judges in front of me, without suspecting any partisan character.
Gérald Darmanin, Minister of the Interior, gave his friendly support to Nicolas Sarkozy following his conviction, does that shock you?
Nobody can deny him his closeness to Nicolas Sarkozy.
That he evokes it in these circumstances does not offend me.
More than the words, it is the silences that are heavy with meaning.
The Keeper of the Seals Eric Dupond-Moretti should have immediately defended the judicial institution against the attacks that were brought to him.
In a democracy, one can comment on a court decision but not disqualify the judicial authority.
I want to believe that President Macron, guarantor of his independence, will recall these principles.
In any case, I do.
According to the former President of the Republic, “the time when politicians were untouchable is over” ./ LP / Arnaud Journois
Despite everything, don't you fear that too much judicialization of political life will demotivate those who want to get involved?
I don't have the impression that there is a vocations crisis!
For the next presidential election, the risk of having zero candidates seems quite low to me.
To say that because there would be a risk of judicialization, there would no longer be any desire to serve one's country, that would be to have a very poor idea of commitment.
It is the citizens who demand that justice intervene when there are shortcomings or faults in the action of public powers.
I sometimes think this is regrettable, especially in terms of public health
(Editor's note: Edouard Philippe and Olivier Véran, for example, are the subject of 9 complaints about the management of the Covid crisis ...
).
But in the rule of law, we cannot prevent victims from filing complaints.
Has the succession of these cases not contributed to undermining citizens' confidence in their policies?
What has long undermined citizens' confidence in politics is the sense of impunity of those responsible.
However, I refuse to cast suspicion on all elected officials.
I defend them, and the best way to do it is not to want to protect them, it is to clearly show their dedication to the common good.
The RN takes advantage of this mistrust of politicians.
Like Anne Hidalgo, do you now think a victory for the RN in 2022 is likely?
It is paradoxical that this party, which is the subject of so many court cases and which has taken Trump as a model, can hope to profit from the deterioration of confidence in institutions.
If it has prospered for years, it is as much because it uses crises as because the governing parties are struggling to create hope.
But let's stop thinking that the extreme right will necessarily be in the second round of the election.
It might not have been in 2017, if the two great political forces of the left and the right had been up to the task.
Do not imagine that it is enough to be against her in the second round to win.
The best way to fight it is not to present yourself just as a solution against the far right, but as a solution for the country.
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At 14 months of the presidential election, how do you judge the state of the left?
It is not the division that is the most worrying, it is the fact that there is not a political line which can assert itself and be able to unite.
It is not the union which makes the force, it is the force which makes the union.
It is this that must be created, it is urgent.
Do you see someone coming off?
For the moment no one is officially a candidate.
There are intentions, but no declaration.
Whatever happens, I will support my political family.
This does not mean that this candidate should not seek to unite beyond.
But in political life, when you no longer have an identity, you no longer have voters.
François Hollande approves the territorialized management of the Covid: “It should even have been used earlier, by placing more trust in the mayors.” / LP / Arnaud Journois
And you, what will be your place?
I have no other than the one I occupied.
It is through the proposals that I can be useful.
When the epidemic is behind us, France will face a serious economic and social crisis.
The challenge for 2022 will be both to get out of these difficulties in social justice, but also to open another path concerning the mode of growth and development, the energy transition and the way of living together.
In terms of health, do you find that the government's now territorialized approach is the right one?
Yes.
It should even have been used earlier, trusting mayors more, and giving them greater freedom to define restrictions rather than having general measures covering the whole territory.
Barrier gestures are essential, such as systematic recourse to tests, local confinements will undoubtedly still be necessary, but we will only get out of this crisis with vaccines.
Vaccinating massively is the only strategy.
Emmanuel Macron had exchanged with you in June on the world "according to Covid".
Has he seen you since?
No.
It's hard for the president to deal with such a long and socially and psychologically painful crisis.
In this function I myself had to face hardships.
I know the difficulty of the task, I do not want to complicate it.
We need unity.