Markus Lanz tries bizarre introduction to the Aogo scandal, when his own guest pulls him off: "Doesn't bother me"

Dennis Aogo speaks at “Markus Lanz” on the racism debate that he initiated himself.

As a result, the topics of other guests are somewhat in the background.

Hamburg - The “Markus Lanz” group on Thursday evening will be devoted to the topics of racism, language and morality. Former professional soccer player Dennis Aogo, who recently sparked a controversy by making a racist WhatsApp message from former national goalkeeper Jens Lehmann public, is in the studio for this purpose. In order to pick up the audience, talk show host Lanz Aogo asks to trace the matter again in detail. He explains that he received the message during a live show, after which he tried to reach Jens Lehmann by phone. When he did not succeed, he published the message because: "I wanted a discussion to take place."

Aogo thinks Lehmann that he is not a racist.

The news was still hurtful, after all, Lehmann assumed that Aogo got his moderation job at Sky because of his skin color and not because of his skills.

Aogo explains that he made it his “mission” to “fight racism my way.

That means: being a role model, being hardworking and trying to be so good that I really work my way into this position. ”Instead, he could“ lie in the sun in the south, but that is not my mission.

And because I put so much energy into it, this news hit me so much ”.

"Markus Lanz" - these were his guests on May 13th:

• Dennis Aogo

  - ex-professional soccer player

• Prof. Eva Hummers

  - medical doctor

• Diana Kinnert (CDU) *

  - politician

• Ferdinand von Schirach

  - author

The bottom line, says Aogo, has now been resolved with Jens Lehmann: “Everyone makes mistakes.

When an adult, seasoned man asks me several times for forgiveness on the phone because he has made a mistake, then I say to myself: Who am I that I will not accept that? ”CDU young politician Diana Kinnert takes Aogo's side and finds it It would be good if someone in Aogo's position made the injuries visible: “Then we actually have civil progress in that we do not have a cancel culture, but a call-out culture, where we have to justify these internalized patterns and terms We also need to make people aware of the fact that they are hurting. "

The author Ferdinand von Schirach then asks, among other things, the question: “What is a racist? Is a racist someone who speaks racist? ”For him, the main issue is who is expressing himself in which context. This is followed by the second chapter in the Aogo case: On the same day, Aogos made a video in which he said that “had been trained to the point of gassing”. Aogo also uses racist language, according to the allegation. Von Schirach knows how to explain and classifies the term historically: “This word does not originally come from the Holocaust, but from the First World War, from the poison gas attacks. That a soldier says: I'll stay until I'm gassed. Because the poison gas attack was the last. That's not a nice meaning either, but it had that meaning. And after the Nazi era, as early as 1963,Hans Magnus Enzensberger wrote about hearing the word gassing on suburban trains. And now we have the same discussion. "

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Professional soccer player Dennis Aogo visits "Markus Lanz"

© Screenshot: ZDF-Mediathek / Markus Lanz

Racism debate: Markus Lanz run out of words

Last but not least, the panel discussion rolled out the remarks by Boris Palmer (Greens), who shared a post in which Aogo was denigrated. The fact that talk show host Lanz does not want to use certain terms of the post creates a bizarre introduction, according to which Ferdinand von Schirach states: "I think a viewer who has not followed this has no idea what you have just said . ”Then the director fades in the post in question, Lanz asks direction von Schirach for help:“ How would you formulate that? ”He answers soberly:“ I would express it exactly as it is there. ”That someone tries to do it rephrasing also bothered him while preparing for the show: “It took me a long time to find what was said in the newspapers.“On the other hand, he finds the Greens' handling of the Palmer case wise. Because there is a party exclusion procedure, party chairwoman Annalena Baerbock can lean back and say: "The committees will take care of it."

Video: Aogo and the reactions to his verbal misstep

A party exclusion procedure is also being debated in the CDU because of Hans-Georg Maaßen, whose party colleague Kinnert finds very clear words: “I think there are a few, for example in Thuringia, who consider him a valuable, competent person.

I do not believe that.

I know that he is referring to conspiratorial sources that are even observed by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution.

I consider its symbolism, its habitus to be yesterday.

I don't think there will be any constructive plans for the future.

I have party colleagues who are now stepping down because of him because they have the feeling that a red line has been crossed. "

Fundamental rights for Europeans?

Ferdinand von Schirach is campaigning for this

At the end of the program, von Schirach has the opportunity to talk about his book "Everyone" and the related concerns. The citizens of the European Union should vote on Europe-wide fundamental rights: "If we manage to get a fundamental rights convention and people give themselves rights, we will get a different relationship to the European Union." Among other things, talk show host Lanz and von Schirach on the transparency and fairness of algorithms. Von Schirach describes his objective: “Imagine you open your laptop and you no longer have to be afraid of being investigated and manipulated. That would be something that people would immediately understand and wherever they would see: we have achieved this in the European Union. And that's worth more than anythingwhat is currently available. "

“Markus Lanz” - the conclusion of the show

Talking about racism in detail and in a differentiated manner is not always easy in talk show formats. All too often the discussions lead to good-bad schemes or mutual mangling. The “Markus Lanz” round succeeded on Thursday evening, however, not least because Dennis Aogo was a person speaking in the middle of a current controversy. Other topics remain by the wayside and will be dealt with by talk show host Lanz towards the end of the program. On the one hand, this includes a short conversation with the member of the Standing Vaccination Commission, Prof. Eva Hummers, who reports on the moral dilemmas of everyday vaccination. On the other hand, Diana Kinnert's book “The New Solitude” is not discussed, for which talk host Lanz apologizes and offers another invitation.