Green moment of shock at Illner: Habeck trims Baerbock's advance

The CO2 savings will have a decisive impact on the economy and politics in the coming years.

Maybrit Illner asks: How should the renovation be financed?

Berlin - Maybrit Illner announces in the introduction to her Thursday talk what many people have already thought about: “Will the climate lockdown come after the corona lockdown?”.

Elsewhere she adds: "A lockdown, as the WHO also says, is always a failure of politics." The bar is set: Even if the title of the show sounds populist - "Everyone wants climate protection - nobody wants to pay for it?" - The problem should be seriously discussed at Illner's round table.

"Maybrit illner" - these guests discussed with:

• Robert Habeck (B´90 / The Greens)

  - party chairman

• Georg Kofler

  - entrepreneur and investor

• Peter Altmaier (CDU)

  - Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy

• Prof. Dr.

  Maja Göpel

  - Scientific Director of the think tank The New Institute, founding member of the "Scientists for Future" campaign

• Gerald Traufetter

  - business

  editor

  in the capital city office of

  "Der Spiegel"

For the Greens, party leader Robert Habeck - well tanned and with a new haircut - sits in the group.

Economy Minister Peter Altmaier (CDU), on the other hand, seems a little out of date when he defends the government's climate policy and proclaims: "We can only achieve climate protection with a strong economy."

But the Greens, too, have done themselves no favors with their proposal to abolish short-haul flights - suggested by Chancellor candidate Annalena Baerbock.

Habeck quickly makes it clear: Baerbock's approach is about "low hanging fruits".

The climate-effective profit is not very high, it is about the “symbolic value of what can be done without it really hurting”.

Habeck: "If we don't even manage to get something as ridiculous as internal flights from Stuttgart to Frankfurt under control, how do we want to face the really big challenges?"

And by that means: “Expansion of renewable energies.

Expansion of the power grids.

Building renovation.

A changed form of mobility ".

“Die Höhle der Löwen” investor Kofler comes out as an FDP voter at the Illner Talk

Habeck makes it clear how the Greens want to enforce this: Politicians will interfere more!

Also to protect consumers from massively rising prices.

Habeck counters demands for the all-regulating market on planned CO2 savings: "We want to minus 65 percent in ten years - if you only do it through companies, it will be really expensive for consumers." That, according to Habeck, "leads to one." CO2 price of 180, 200 euros per ton ”.

The result is "a social problem because only very, very rich people can then afford cars, homes and flights," said the Greens boss.

His credo is therefore: "Regulatory policy is equality." But Habeck also admits, without being specific: "We will have to define prosperity differently."

For the entrepreneur and “Die Höhle der Löwen” investor Georg Kofler, who outed himself as an FDP voter on the show and who recently relied on the liberal party for a donation of 750,000 euros on the party account, this idea is a horror.

He doesn't mean it ironically when he says about the election manifesto of the Greens: Behind the melodious climate protection rhetoric lies “a torture workshop of the socialist planned economy” and a “dirigist state” that is simply not modern.

Habeck and Altmaier interrupt each other - Maybrit Illner breaks a sweat

Keyword for Altmaier, who now goes back: "Robert Habeck, whom I really appreciate, said he is against doing it through the price ..." But he doesn't get any further, because the introduction brings the Green boss to the table Palme und Habeck interrupts Altmaier. But the minister does not want to be interrupted, he complains: “I let you finish speaking too!” - and suddenly both are talking at the same time! “You had 85 percent of the speaking time so far! You are cheating! ", Complains Altmaier and also whines at Illner:" You always interrupt me when I try to counter others! ". Habeck gives the bean counter for this: "You shouldn't quote me wrongly". "Only about the price", he criticized, with the emphasis on "only".

Maja Göpel focuses on the overall picture and makes it clear that “talking about the costs of climate protection” only makes sense if they are compared with the “costs of refusing to protect the climate”.

She makes it clear again: “The Federal Constitutional Court said that we have done too little for far too long.

That is why the discussion is now so heated and strenuous because it is now getting very radical! ”And Habeck adds:“ The constitutional court said: climate policy is freedom policy! ”.

“It is not a policy of prohibition or eco-dictatorship.

It ensures freedom! "

Liters of petrol will cost significantly more in five years, Habeck predicts at "maybrit illner"

But Altmaier can also campaign: “I was Environment Minister in Berlin ten years ago,” he recalls, “and the Greens told me: We don't need power lines in Baden-Württemberg, we have to build wind turbines there. The Greens have been ruling there for ten years, and almost no wind turbines have been built there! ”Habeck rolls his eyes. “This review of the past is just annoying!” Shortly afterwards, the Greens resorted to the same rhetoric when he criticized the German auto industry's late entry into electric mobility: “Then it was signaled by clever transport ministers: Put it all away, we'll do it the clean diesel, friends! ”. Which has led to it now lagging behind.

"What will a liter of petrol cost in five years?", Illner wants to know from Habeck.

He estimates surprisingly quickly: "Compared to the seven or eight cents that have now come up, twice as much".

Journalist Gerald Trauschein makes it clear who it ultimately depends on: Citizens already have a choice today when they go to the car dealership.

In truth, electric cars are now the cheaper alternative.

With that he runs into open doors at Kofler.

The TV “lion” sings the praises of the free market economy.

According to Kofler, the sustainability message has reached the companies and has long been the top priority there.

Altmaier sums up in his closing words: "We have to recognize that climate protection and economic strength are two sides of the same coin." 

Conclusion of the “maybrit illner” talk

Fast lap, promising topic, quick-witted argument.

The viewer worked up a sweat late in the evening with so much content.

For those who needed an overview of where the election campaign was going, this program was a must.

List of rubric lists: © Screenshot: ZDF-Mediathek / maybrit illner