SPIEGEL:
Mr. Hartmann, we want to talk to you about the reparation agreement for German colonial crimes in Namibia.
You were concerned that your German name might repel us.
How so?
Hartmann:
My grandfather on my mother's side was an imperial soldier and a member of the Schutztruppe. He arrived in "German South West Africa" in 1908 at the age of 20, did his military service and then established himself as a blacksmith.
For some German historians, I am therefore a right-wing colonial descendant, I am, as it were, taken into custody and thus disqualified.
For a majority of German-speaking Namibians, on the other hand, I'm the left wing, the uncomfortable communist pig.
SPIEGEL:
Why?
Hartmann:
Because I remind people that they are sitting on stolen property and that a differentiated Namibian appraisal of the colonial past is essential for a good Namibian future.
SPIEGEL:
Germany and Namibia have been wrestling over how to deal with colonial crimes since 2015 - the agreement is now ready to be signed.
Federal President Frank-Walter Steinmeier is supposed to travel to Namibia and officially apologize for the genocide of Herero and Nama between 1904 and 1908.
Hartmann:
Mr. Steinmeier cannot apologize, that would mean to excuse himself.
How does that work?
He can only ask for forgiveness for the suffering caused by Germans, honor it honestly and hope that the gesture will be accepted.
I trust him to do that.
He knows for sure that reconciliation is not a one-way street.
Enlarge image
Bloody war of extermination in "German South West Africa"
Photo: Chris Hellier / Getty Images
SPIEGEL:
Even before the agreement was dry, there was heavy criticism.
Herero and Nama associations condemned the agreement as a PR coup for Germany and a fraudulent act by the Namibian government.
Why?
Hartmann:
On the one hand, you don't feel adequately represented by the Namibian delegation.
On the other hand, they insist on reparations for the injustice suffered and reject the aid money agreed in Berlin for social projects.
Which, by the way, are ridiculously small.
SPIEGEL:
Do you know the agreed amount?
Hartmann:
I have a very good network.
Although the amount, as one can hear behind closed doors, is not high, the Namibian negotiators in Berlin have apparently approved the deal.
SPIEGEL:
Why?
Hartmann:
In English there is the saying: "Let's grab and run" - "Let's grab it and run." And very quickly.
Before the Germans put new conditions on what little they want to give us.
SPIEGEL: In
your opinion, would compensation payments to the descendant groups directly affected make more sense?
Hartmann:
Yes, now is really the time.
But the Namibian government refuses to allow two individual ethnic groups to enter into negotiations with Germany, detached from the state.
SPIEGEL:
In addition, personal reparations would set a precedent to which descendants of colonial groups of victims in other countries could refer.
Hartmann:
Of course.
Those involved tell me that England and France, for example, have followed the German negotiations in recent years with some concern.
SPIEGEL:
How strongly did the German colonial era, i.e. the phase between 1884 and 1915, have an impact on Namibia?
Chained: A German Soldier Guarding Captive Herero (1904)
Photo: AFP / NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF NAMIBIA
Hartmann:
Namibia is deeply divided as a result of colonialism. On the one hand, we have the "descendants of the perpetrators," that is, the German-speaking Namibians, a negligibly small group with 0.75 percent of the total population. On the other hand, there are the »victim descendants«, ie the Nama with 4.8 percent of the population and the OvaHerero, as they would like to be called, about 7.5 percent of the people in the country. We still live largely in separate parts of the city, whoever is poor is black - the rich are white and own most of the land. This is also due to the subsequent South African period, which simply continued the colonial destruction.
SPIEGEL:
There are also numerous other population groups in the country, such as the Ovambo, Damara, OvaHimba, Kavango, Baster, Tswana, Caprivier and San.
Hartmann:
The Ovambo are the largest ethnic group.
They make up around 50 percent of the population and make up the majority of the government.
SPIEGEL:
Is there such a thing as a Namibian national consciousness?
Hartmann:
That is hardly pronounced. Most people see themselves initially as members of an ethnic group and only in a second step as Namibians, there is no national narrative. While OvaHerero and Nama primarily define themselves as victims of German colonial injustice, the ruling party SWAPO, the South-West Africa People's Organization, tells the story of Namibia primarily as a heroic struggle against the South African apartheid regime, which ruled Namibia until 1990. The resistance of the OvaHerero and Nama against the Germans plays a rather subordinate role for the SWAPO in this context. The German-speaking Namibians, on the other hand, tell the story, just as jitterily, as a "glorious" and "heroic" fight against invasive locals.
SPIEGEL:
What history is currently being taught in school?
Hartmann:
In the state curricula, Namibian history is placed in the service of a SWAPO-heavy master narrative.
The anti-colonial resistance in the late 19th and early 20th centuries is dealt with more generally, but does not aim at a deeper understanding of colonial and imperialist developments.
SPIEGEL:
What about the German school abroad in Windhoek?
Hartmann:
Namibian history is not a subject there.
In 2020 we, the history colleagues at the school and I, developed a textbook on German colonial history in Namibia under the premise of »Remembering for the Present«, financed by the Foreign Ministry in Berlin.
So that there is even a presentation for lessons based on good historical work.
The teaching material available in the meantime, in English and German, is still not implemented in the classroom.
SPIEGEL:
What was the problem?
Hartmann:
Difficult to say.
I suppose that was politically not wanted at the school.
You see: In Germany people have dealt extensively with the Nazi legacy - in this country, the German-speaking Namibians have not really come to grips with the cruel colonial past of their ancestors, apart from obvious debates on denial.
SPIEGEL:
Is the colonial past being dealt with at the university level?
Hartmann:
There is a lack of well-trained Namibian historians and a broad academic discourse.
A thorough, methodologically clean reappraisal of this history cannot take place in this way.
SPIEGEL:
Since when has the issue of colonialism played a role in the public debate?
Hartmann:
Since Namibia's independence in 1990. With the system change, the OvaHerero and Nama hoped - unfortunately in vain - that after 75 years of oppression by South Africa they would finally be heard and regain their old rights and their country.
SPIEGEL:
That the Germans
stole
them from them at the beginning of the 20th century?
Enlarge image
Monument commemorating the genocide in Windhoek
Photo: Jürgen Bätz / dpa
Hartmann:
Yes.
In the course of the wars between 1904 and 1908, the OvaHerero and Nama were not only hunted to certain death by thirst en masse, killed as fleeing civilians and murdered in the camps, but also dispossessed and disenfranchised.
The so-called indigenous ordinances of 1907 cemented the genocidal suffering of the oppressed population: From now on, they were prohibited from owning any land or livestock, and a rigid reporting system was introduced.
SPIEGEL:
What does that mean?
Hartmann:
Every OvaHerero and Nama had to wear a passport around their necks and were no longer allowed to move freely.
The aim was to ensure a landless proletariat that could be used as labor.
The people, like slaves, had to keep themselves ready for work on farms and mines, which was tantamount to a socio-psychological-cultural genocide.
It's incredible that OvaHerero and Nama even survived this.
The injuries continue to work in people's souls to this day.
SPIEGEL:
How do you determine that?
Hartmann:
As a pastor trained in family constellations, my aim is also to track down the transgenerational consequences of colonialism in the souls and to support them therapeutically.
They are still overwhelmingly noticeable and hang like a huge black cloud over the descendants, on both sides, for example in the form of severely damaged social structures.
SPIEGEL:
Now, money from Germany is supposed to be a gesture of reconciliation.
Can injustice be made up for with money at all?
Hartmann:
Of course not, everyone knows that too.
The sums that flowed into Israel after the Second World War could not offset the endless suffering of the Jews.
Nevertheless, there is this unpleasant argument: The Germans gave the Jews so much money - and the OvaHerero and Nama are stingy.
That can only be said by those who equate the Holocaust with what happened here between 1904 and 1908.
SPIEGEL:
And is it possible?
Hartmann:
No, that is completely absurd.
Whoever does that puts the Holocaust into perspective.
There was no direct line from Windhoek to Auschwitz.
That sounds good, but it cannot be proven.
more on the subject
German Colonialism in Africa: Where's Mangi Meli's Head? By Katja Iken
SPIEGEL: Coming
to terms with colonial injustice also includes returning Namibian cultural assets.
Around 1400 exhibits from the former German South West Africa are stored in Berlin alone.
What should happen with it?
Hartmann:
They were stolen and have to go back, all of them.
End of the discussion.
What we do with it here is none of the Germans' business.
SPIEGEL:
It doesn't seem that simple.
When the Germans wanted to return the Nama leader Henrik Witbooi's Bible and whip in 2019, the Nama protested.
Hartmann:
Because they were of the opinion that it was Witbooi's personal property and that the things should therefore be returned to the family.
Germany, however, doubted that the Nama would handle it properly.
So the bible and the whip were handed over to the Namibian government, which annoyed many Nama: They felt once more bullied.
In this context, the Germans heard the hint that one could also have a
positive influence on
Namibian
nation-building in this
way.
That came across as a bit patronizing here.
SPIEGEL:
What's next?
Hartmann:
I'm curious about that. In Namibia we were very surprised that after such a long time an agreement should suddenly have been reached. The suspicion arises that the German government wants to get the issue off the table now, before it may be replaced after the federal elections in the autumn. And the Namibian negotiating partner may have thought: Let's get the whole thing done before the election, before a new government may untangle the package again - and we have to wait another ten years for our money.
